(As an aside, you are a braver man than me Gunga Din. I did trial a covetor on LS ice, and it gave superb yield, but got WAY too much attention. Once people knew it was out there it was generally pointless continuing for rest of that day. I have also been chased across LS when moving a porpoise, but that is an altogether different mining boat. Porpoise is quite lucrative for solo, ninja mining of R64 moons plus it can deal far better with clone soldiers than barges due to its superior drone bandwith.)
Mining is fine the way that it is we get enough Pve I am miners not pvpers ,
I have no desire to PVP do I know how yes do I enjoy shooting things yes with my lasers it’s called mining
so your idea of a PVP mining, ship
is neither needed or want it guess what my dromes can do the PVP if I need them to I have six sets at my disposal they can deal some damage
I literally said there would have to be changes to other things, and fully expect some of the base stats to drop out of the barges onto potential fittings.
Read what I write without putting it through some preconceived filter.
As for using a Cov. Great for you. Now remind me how many slots it has, how much PG it has left after T1 strips and a 50mn MWD… You know. Basic stuff other ships can actually fit
You fit ships based on what you are going to need…period. If a ship can’t be fitted for what you want then you either need (a) a different ship or (b) to check to see if your needs are realistic in the first place.
You can’t have everything and I was FULLY accepting the limitations of a Cov as I wanted the pure ripping power of that beast. What I didn’t need was the “basic stuff”…it was hyper-specialized and it was great.
It seems that the barges simply do not check all your boxes and you think they should…which is unrealistic.
The Cov is a fantastic ship but it is system specific: ie find a dead part of LS and profit. The rats are actually more of a threat.
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Higgs Anchor I
Medium Drone Mining Augmentor II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Mining Drone II x5
Omber Mining Crystal II x2
Not saying this is perfect but it will pull in almost (ore) 1900m3 a minute…a full ship in well under 4 minutes. The Higgs gives you instawarp vs rats and evil-do’ers.
I would pre-BM fields in a POS whatever and then hit the belts…pricey ship but she was great in LS. It’s actually too good (yield) as you spend so much time warping…
That was the problem. That and awkward 7-block ore hold. I tried to resolve both by jet canning, then picking up every hour with a cloaky-warp miasmos. The local pirates simply camped the cans if they spotted them, so I simply reverted to procurers instead.
I’ve never used the Higgs. Will have to try it out. Could be a winner if it significantly decreases align time for barges by that much.
Wouldn’t have thought about putting a drone rig on a covetor though. Do have one on an ice skiff. Advantage there is you can get an ice drone to yield 50% of one harvester, giving you 5 blocks every two cycles. Which is perfect when you have a 15 block ore hold.
Rats weren’t too bad; it was typically the clone soldiers that would stop play. No way to tank or splash them in covetor. So, I do like the idea of a more combat-ready barge - because I could use it in LS or Invasion conduits - but, I have no interest in using such a boat to then springboard into PvP.
Do that and in a month miners will be demanding automated turrets because they got ganked while afk due to their disabled, VC winning grandfather wanted to pet their dying dog one last time.
And so do the gankers demand more, or rather that everyone else gets less… And so do the ratters… And so does everyone else.
There is always someone demanding more in every aspect. That shouldn’t stop CCP from making s good change. It’s not some kind of magic slippery slope.
I read a thread on fits for combat ships and damage control modules. The main thrust of the concept was that if you know what you are likely to face then a DC is not the optimal choice. I now try to carry this over to my builds, where unless it helps the MAX, I try to avoid it. Heck on that build I leave the mid slot open.
Never mined ice…
I cycle my beams every 33% of a rotation(in general) so that is not problem for me.
How do they know that do not want to use them (essential skills), if they have just begun the game. I would contend that the introduction of the game, sets the players understanding and progress. If they are only given a PvE starting environment they will continue to expect a PvE - up to the point where a belligerent player will intrude. Because, if it not “forced” on them at the NPE, it will eventually occur. Better it occurs early, with Aura (or gasp actual human) coaching and loss (or win) can be appreciated.
The over specialization of barges/exhumers removes players from being able to make intelligent decisions. Even the hand-holding of the barge line-up design fails when you see kill mails with Procures that have fitted a Civilian Shield Booster.
In comparison the Venture fits within the Eve’s primary paradigm. That a player has choices, can make them, right or wrong for the circumstances in which they fly. It can fit both medium shield extender and prop-mod. It has aux high slot for cloak, probe launcher, RR, Nos/neut. And the only thing that matters is how much it mines. Such a waste.
Where is the option for Large Shield Extenders and Prop to a Barge? Where are aux high slots for bells and whistles?There were more options with the Osprey, than the barges were intended to replace mining Ospreys.
Then we have look at Tieracide. For example, there is a consistent thematic for missiles. Each level of the hull builds (Caldari or Minmatar) on the mechanics of the preceding ship size. From frigate up to to dreadnought. This is a core of game play. I would rather see mining Osprey that builds on the Venture’s basics than the aberration of barges.
This strikes me as a perfectly sensible argument. And one that is contrary to EvE’s sandbox concept.
Two out of five starting tutorials are combat-based. New players are already exposed, just as you wanted. However, new players can also choose not to do something. Such as tutorials. Are you saying you would now want the completion of combat tutorials (or similar) to be mandatory?
Maybe. It is also just possible the pilot with civilian mods fitted was simply moving from A to B, or was impatient to do something, and just slapped on any old mod rather than taking the time to get a proper fit or even just leaving it empty.
Contrast that with fail-fit barges, killed in LS and that had neither rigs nor mids fitted. These were almost certainly deliberate fits, chosen because the pilot knew if they were caught they would die so why waste costs on ineffective fits? Seems like a fairly informed, if not intelligent, decision to me.
Hold on. You have just said that poorly fit barges are a direct result of their over-specialisation, which is bad, yet any poorly fitted venture would simply be because the pilot had made a bad choice, which would be good? That’s an opinion, but I think you are very far from making your case.
I could just as well argue on your other point that the venture has a prop mod capability because its main tank is speed, whereas a barge cannot speed because its tank is in its mass (armor/structure) and that a prop mod would make stuff-all practical difference to its speed anyway.
Bottom line. You don’t like specialisation. And I don’t see the point of diluting the current fit-for-purpose nature of mining vessels. I will give you credit for not advocating that barges should be replaced with mining rokhs, but the closer anyone threatens that as an outcome the closer you will get to an outcome of no mining in EvE. In my opinion.
I’ve killed various barges (even the procurer) and a Cynabal while in a Venture. For shits and giggles roams to Frat or Horde R64 moons to mine their ore and kill anything that comes. You can still fit a mining laser on it alongside a gun… and a pack of them will kill people just fine.
Plus because you can fit a decent shield extender on a Venture alongside its bonuses and prop mod you can gate crash somebody’s camp quite effectively. If anything the barges were a mistake and we should have instead had cruisers with attack power on-par with the EWAR cruisers (that is, not much but still there…) alongside the mining bonuses. Better align times, better ability to actually fit tank and countermeasures.
Sure in a one versus one a mining ship should probably still lose to an actual combat ship. But a few roamers spiking into a group of miners should be a lot more liable to get filled with holes than having a turkey shoot. Granted a group of procs with a fast lock combat vessel being assisted by a drone swarm isn’t exactly toothless… but such a thing requires not being an alt-tabbed AFK punching bag and additionally not succumbing to the greed of extra mining via drones taking up the bay.
zKillboard entries please, so we can see their fits - and it would be interesting to see your Venture fit too, if you’re willing to publish it.
I believe EVE Uni even lists a battle-Venture…
Mostly for S&G
Fascinating - thanks for the link. I can see how a Venture fleet of sufficient size might down a Proc without losing too many of it’s members - but a single Venture against a standard-fit Proc, especially if the proc has 5 tech-2 light scout drones available ? I doubt it, somehow…
Go fishing in LS near a hub with one of those…bet you will catch an unsuspecting frigate or two…
I might just try that - for the S&G
Getting lost here, didn’t CCP just release reports showing the biggest number of NPC bounties were from null in a particular region, and wasn’t the amount or ore mined also in null the highest yet you want miners out of the game because they don’t pvp?
What happens when you don’t get your ice to fuel all the player structure rammed into nearly every system, you all going to stop pvp’ing and start mining?
CCP does not have the financial desire to change base code to really improve this aspect of the game (l2 modular design).
To be honest, the barges need to be merged into 1, combining all of the benefits of each, or they need to be deleted and put in the hands of the better, covert oriented brothers.
Actually its really not. An equalized income rate for mining would be much better for the game. Personally, I have my own beliefs on a rework of mining, but it really does not make much sense for the three types to exist with their current ship stats to them.
I would be ok if all three’s benefits merged into 1 and then the hull designers (Graphical) was shifted to cloning that 3-in-1 to have one specialized in each field, with different ship requirements, like one requiring gas skills, the next ice, and the last rock.
Out side of that i find it stupid that one can tank null rats, and the rest really cant. It seems nonsensical.