MJD for Alphas


(Dragos Highwind) #21

This is extremely easy to bypass, like borderline impossible to enforce easy to bypass.


(Maekchu) #22

Someone disagree with my opinion… They must be a troll. REEEEEEE!!!

On a more serious note, thinking that alphas should be restricted is a perfectly viable opinion. Don’t know why you dismiss it as trolling.


(Verdis deMosays) #23

Kek bless you for your REEEEEE!

When I see 8 posts slavering over “won’t work, because reasons” i just assume reddit troll. I am, however open to a good discourse on the topic, and there have been some good replies, which I appreciate.


(Maekchu) #24

It’s a hard argument to have.

Basically my opinion is that alphas should be restricted. In the post that I responded to, you seem to suggest that there is no real reason to sub an account besides not having access to a MJD.

My conclusion has been that alpha state has no effect on how you play the game, except in the area of the MJD. I can live with ~10% less dps, and ~12% less cap from being alpha, and not have it make any change in how i fly.

So basically, if the an alpha account has access to the MJD, then there really does not seem to be any reason to sub.

Which was why I said, based on your experiences, it seems that the restriction on alphas is actually way too lenient.

In my opinion, alphas should be a way to tryout the game. Not the main way to actually play it.

So the argument is hard, since we fundamentally disagree whether eve should be F2P or P2P.


(Verdis deMosays) #25

I believe there is a place for both. I love having the extra challenge of alpha state, and being able to still play even after financial had times. Kids, and a job which will randomly prevent you from getting overtime, make things tight financialy. Its wonderful to still be effective as a pvp pilot on the free.

But as mentioned, I do have about 85m SP. I can fly damn near any subcap and fly it very well. For me it’s a choice to fly as an alpha. And other than missing my Sentinel, Proteus, and Stratios, I don’t really feel limited.

Except the damn MJD.

It really feels restrictive, and in an arbitrary way. If an alpha has taken the time to train BS skills up, and the appropriate core and support skills, they will have either gone omega or injected to get them all. Being unable to use the one thing their ship’s fit is usually based around is very much a bitter taste moment.

I’m in FW, so 90% of my time is spent in frigs and dessies. These changes would affect me very little. But right now, if I wanted to fly a BC or BS, I wouldn’t without an MJD. But I also would not sub just to get access to it. It’s more of an irritating reminder than an incentive. A huge piece of your toolkit lost, which prevents you from being an effective pvp pilot, rather than something exciting to look forward to, like command bursts, or T2 large guns.


(Agondray) #26

no, MJD for alphas will also allow them to better farm isk in sites, missions, and some other areas allowing higher dps at range. the alliances should use the alphas for cannon fodder in that instance so they can reposition and assault as the enemy will have to choose between attacking the alphas or moving pass them to get to the main fleet


(Jevatoxa) #27

No it can’t.

To get around this requires a bannable exploit.


(Jevatoxa) #28

The main objection in this thread (once you ignore the straw man arguments and the odd comment based on lack of knowledge of alpha mechanics) is that Eve should be a paid subscription game and that the alpha account model is a trial only. This is not even close to correct, otherwise the trial would be, well, a trial. Let’s take a look at CCP Seagull’s own words on this:

"CCP has been thinking about how to provide a free way to take part in eve online for years and years in different shapes and forms that never really went anywhere…

I mean we of course now have an alpha eye on a lot of stuff and we ask ourselves the question “can alpha clones meaningfully participate in this” and so on, but one of the huge starting points for the design that we have landed in is that we wanted the alpha clone state to be a viable experience. Like for us it wouldn’t feel right, and we also think it wouldn’t be very attractive, if we were offering something that was super gimped - basically, like a kind of a super tiny straight-jacket.

And i think that maybe for really established eve players the skillset feels tiny but we picked it specifically to make sure that you can actually viably participate in almost everything in eve online, at least to some extent and thats how we really want it to be, both for existing players who wanna drop in an alpha state and for for new players so we are trying to make sure that there is a viable experience and trying to make sure there are roles in fleets for alpha clones.

Some of the more efficient range of the scale for the omega clones so that’s the approach but we’re really trying to make sure it’s a viable viable experience…

A lot of people are planning and scheming how to take advantage of the alpha invasion that we’ll hopefully see - whether it’s from old players or from new player"

Source: http://crossingzebras.com/the-alpha-and-omega-executive-producer-ccp-seagull-interview/

With that cleared up, that leaves the question: where should the line be drawn between “viable for alphas” and “the efficient range of scale for omega clones”? I don’t see an MJD as a quantum leap in this balance; after all, site/plex farmers/bots can already farm in a warp-stabbed hull, so they can already use a fitting to escape alongside an illegal script (or similar exploits) in their isk-making.

Do we really, though, want to base this argument on a minority of people who are cheating? To be fair, I can see both sides of that single question.

The other point is that most MMOs have been free to play for about a decade, with the cash shop being a significant source of income. I know many alphas (including my own alts) who have bought clothing, skins, skill extractors and other fun items even without an active subscription. I also know a small number of alphas who don’t have much time to play (and hence don’t pay the subscription as it isn’t worth it for the few hours they’re online), but who always fleet up with me for, for example, a PvP roam, thereby helping provide content for everybody, alpha or omega.

I’m a subbing player and have been for 5 years (and on and off before then). Yet I still find it fun to use alphas, and I easily spend more on plex than I do on my subscription fee. If alphas are helping keep Eve alive, either through buying plex or creating content, then long may that continue.


(Daoden) #29

No. Alphas do not need a MJD to be able to do most of the game. They are not restricted from PvP or PvE in any way shape or form from not having a MJD. They have access to all content in game just not as efficient as an omega which is where they should be.


(Verdis deMosays) #30

Read what has been written.

Areas of the game have been arbitrarily restricted to alpha accounts against CCP Seagull’s concept of what they should be.

If you arent just arguing to argue, answer this question:
What area of the game would be hurt by alpha clones having an MJD?


(Daoden) #31

Let me ask you this, do you think alphas should get cloaking devices?


(Kynami Vaille) #32

False equivalency. We both know that one is not allowed along with cynos because you’d end up with endless numbers of cyno/cloaking spy alts if there is no cost attached.

For an MJD to be useful the player needs to be at the controls of a large enough ship and in space as content. (Unlike Cyno toons which are left unlogged until needed and cloaky alts that just sit hidden somewhere at a safe with a dscan up.) And if they are only allowed a singular rank within the skill it will be considerably less usable than within the hands of a fully skilled paid player with a faster spool and less down time.

The PvP meta shits extremely hard on brawling ships that cannot close the distance on kitey stuff. This pretty much means the only way you’ll see an alpha in a BC in PvP is large null fleets because they are absolutely not able to fly the small gang fit in low that NEEDS that MJD to make range from some arse dropping a carrier on a small gang. Or needs that instant gap close to be able to get any effective damage off with a closer ranged ship against something wanting to stick to 75K+ range.

Bigger slower ships take a helluva lot longer to bounce pings… by the time you are aligning to that second ping to hopefully land on somebody they are already aligned and bouncing before you land.


(Daoden) #33

So alphas should gain access to a module that gives them the ability to run away thus taking content away from the game.


(Kynami Vaille) #34

Sounds more like you are looking for fish in a barrel than a fight. And it isn’t only just for running away. One of the best ways to get that tackle on somebody sitting close to 100K off the initial warp in point. Its double edged, just like any good tool.


(Daoden) #35

The last thing we need is more combat capability from alphas, if they want to use a MJD they can plex or sub like the rest of us.


(DrysonBennington) #36

I would agree for a MJD for Alphas but it would have a long cool down time of ten minutes before its next use. Upgrading to an Omega Clone would unlock the full potential of the MJD module.


(Daoden) #37

If it was a 10 min cool down they would just dock up and log until they can use it again. If they log back on.


(Verdis deMosays) #38

Therin lies the heart of the argument a lot of people have made: I pay, therefore they should too.

It’s a fallacy. Alpha clones are here, adapt or die, just like you do with the rest of eve.

What lots of people fail to see, is this change actually makes the life of a pvp omega better. More alphas flying larger ships, means more alphas dying in larger ships. More dank killmails, and real fights.

Oh HELL no! Cloaks are truly game breaking, along with cynos, on free accounts.

The reason is that they dont promote any actual interaction between players. An alpha cyno alt would only be in space for 10 minutes, plus whatever time it took him to dock up. Same with the cloak. They would be used to log in, spy, and then log out. I know, because that’s what I would do.

Alpha access to MJDs would actually encourage people to get out in space in larger hulls, and bigger fleets. That adds content for all.

Totally agree. MJD Operation I max. I would also be fine if CCP made the MJD have a T2 variant with higher skill and fitting but lower spool time for omegas only. It’s really about time someone jammed some morphite in one.


(DrysonBennington) #39

So basically you want to allow Alpha’s to have better modules that are still worse than your modules or ships so you can kill mail whore grind on them?

Why can’t you take on PvPers in your own class of ships and modules?


(Ranar Linyne) #40

This is not a good idea. Ccplease don’t give alphas mjd.