I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, as a cloaky explorer, mission runner and scout, I 100% oppose the game mechanics of this deployable.
Mainly because it negatively impacts active players by automatically decloaking the player without any advance warning. Also it doesn’t provide active players an option to remain cloaked when the Mobile Observatory pings them.
Having a 40% chance of being decloaked by Mobile Observatories is fine but the 15 minute Cloak activation timer should be removed from Cloak modules.
I mean.. you can think that I have a poorly disguised ulterior motive all you want, I said don’t have one.
you don’t believe me.
likewise, I do not believe people who say they are “very active” while you are cov-ops hunting.
Thing is: You dont hafto take my words for it, you can go to the devblog and read yourself of the stated goals/missions of ccp .. The mobile observatory obviously goes against them all.
The problem we are discussing (and the imminent fail of the “mobile observatory”) is afk cloaky camping. If you would have read my cloak fuel idea, you would have seen that the idea is more lenient towards using a cloak then this mobile observatory. (thus would not argue like im somehow against cloaks)
It would however require cloaky campers to develop a brain and do some travel work and plan ahead.
cov ops hunting would require skill and not just “oh let’s wait until the ship is defenseless”.
So of course you and others alike don’t like the change, because it dosent suit you well.. but still, good for the game.
Oh yeah. thanks for bringing that up.
I was proving a point. sarcastically.
He and others say I’m unable to be objective and only “sees my side of things”.. WELL turns out, he is the one who can only see things from his side.
.. you see, “the dead horse” can substitute all things “in modern society” it can be applied to the cloak fuel idea and it can also be applied to cloak itself. So when he applied it in the context of this thread, he is not objective.
A neutral open-minded person would also see that the “dead horse” applies equally to the cloak.
thus that person would not even argue the point the way that he just did.
TL;DR
he, you and others alike are projecting your inability to empathize with other players/playstyle on me. And I won’t have it.
it’s an immunity timer, you are immune from the pulse for 15 min. you can re-cloak as much as you can today. Also, no one is gonna drop this thing for an explorer, they cost 1b per day to have up.
tldr; don’t be scared, you’re fine, nothing will change for you.
First, I’m not just an explorer and even if I was, there’s lot’s of players who would love to catch a cloaky explorer ship with a cargohold full of loot.
Also if I understand correctly, an activation timer means under normal conditions that’s how long it’ll last, then there’s a 6 second cooldown before cloak can be reactivated. And with active Mobile Observatories in the system doing a ping every 10 minutes with a 40% chance of decloaking cloaked ships, you can’t rely on that 15 minute activation timer.
Lastly, where did you get the 1 bil ISK price for Mobile Observatories? Last I heard the price was 40 mil.
me and others are already telling them… this new deployable is nothing more then a paperweight isk sink.
at best its a mildly annoying feature - to a real brick… for the actual 100% active cov-ops “hunter l33tpvp pilotZ” (who obviously do sooooo much more then just wait for a defensless target)
afk cloakys will adjust… im sure the bot macro scripts already been written.
login / logout
endscript
login. /cloak
if observatory. wait 14 min. uncloak. warp between bm 1-2. recloak. warp bm 3
endscript yup… very complicated scripts.
The non-bots, they can just wait until a observatory goes up, then log off and repeat the process in one hour. op success.
me and others are already telling them..
This new deployable is nothing more then a paperweight isk sink. at best its a mildly annoying feature - to “a real brick” for the actual 100% active cov-ops “hunter l33tpvp pilotZ” (who obviously do sooooo much more then just wait for a defensless target)
But meh, the observatory is here to combat the afk-cloaky problem. And afk cloakys will adjust.. im sure the bot macro scripts already been written.
login / logout
endscript
login. /cloak
if observatory. wait 14 min. uncloak. warp between bm 1-2. recloak. warp bm 3
endscript yup.. very complicated scripts. but its been 14 days now, so they should have worked all the kinks out..
The non-bots, they can just wait until a observatory goes up, then log off and repeat the process in one hour. op success.
the observatory has an activation period of 10 min before it start sending out pings.
when you activate your own cloak, you are immune from that ping for 15 min.
I dont know how often the ping goes out or what the chance to decloak % is at.
I’ve heard it mention in this thread that it pinged every 6 min..?
You say 10 min?
so.. if you run out your “immunity” period and getting decloaked of a ping, and recloak imediatly,
you’r cloak should stay up for another 20 min.
(as you are inside your de-cloak immunity window on the the next ping)
the >manufacture< cost (on evepresail) is 42mil .. sell price on live is impossible to know, but it should be more then 42m atleast`?
42mil x 24hrs = 1.008 B
I know, thank you.
I do my best to troll the trolls.. just enough so the popcorn hour never ends.. but it’s a fine balance to walk upon.
When it comes to “new ideas” like the cloak fuel idea, all publicity is good publicity.
One of the reasons none is taking you seriously as you keep referencing wrong information. For example the lift i me of the observatory is 1hour 40mins. Unless they have changed things since they were launched. Which at 42mill a unit is 576mill to keep one active for 24 hours.
But WHY would you need to have one up for 24 hours?
You see someone in local who might be afk camping. You deploy the observatory. If they are still there after 15minutes and not uncloaked then they are an active player. If they are an active player this module is not designed to combat them so why keep deploying. Why burn isk hoping for a different outcome when the player is quite clearly active and the observatory isn’t intended for that purpose?
it was not 1hr 40 mins, as I recall.
come to think about it, it might have been 90min? but now you say it is 100min…?
the projected cost of 1b was only the manufacture cost, if it gets blown up or sell for more than 42m… the 1b per 24hr/system might still hold true.
but regardless, the point is, it’s still expensive and it will not burn for 24hrs. it might even blow up.
for the same reason, one would need it to be online for 1 hour.
different people keep login in continuously thru out the 24hr period, eve is international.
well… let’s get one thing clear…
the majority of people affected by something are not on (any) internet forum.
aka. there is no “truth” to be discovered by “everyone” agreeing or disagreeing with something. As “everyone” is not represented anyone on any forums.
So, when you claim that “noone is taking me serious”. it’s water under the bridge, it doesn’t mean anything at all.
all it does is strengthen your own self-beliefs, it’s a bubble.
One should not draw a conclusion on the opinions of “everyone” on any forum. its foolish.
or
they have decloaked - but you dont know that until you scan and warp to every friendly in system.
or
they are botting
or
they are on a deep-safe far away from your probes
or
they have set a 15 min alarm clock while they clean their house and are not “active” at all.
or
they log out and bait opponents to burn 42mil.
I find it incredible you can speak with so much authority on the impact of a module you clearly have not researched, tested or frankly know anything about.
Everyone agrees the new deployable is not designed to combat bots of any kind. If you think you spot someone running scripts, report them and let the gm’s/security team sort it out.
No problem with that. They teach you the value of money and when to spend it. It also proves they are not afk - which is exactly what the design is intended to do, separate the afk from the non-afk. And during that hour that they aren’t even online, so what is the problem ? That you blew 40 M ? That you’re even willing to throw more good money to save bad money e.g., to keep the fun going for 24 hrs ? Well, here’s another factor. If that is really the result of a deployed observatory, 40M is a mere fraction of what you can make in nullsec in an hour. Sounds like a bargain to me if the alternative is for you to stay docked. Right ?
In any case, having one of these deployed will still require you to take some action in case it does decloak someone successfully. And that is the problem you see all along. You want them gone automatically, either by fuel needs or some other concocted solution to the same effect.
I find its incredible to think with much authority, all i do is explain life.
and yes i have reserched and tested this module.
you think you found a kink in my armor with this little obscure detail that has no real impact on the funtion of the module… that i misrememberd…
Go ahead, troll away… with your meh-argueing skills, its not a discussion… and im pretty sure that someway down the line i gonna turn it all around only to mention that the cloakfuel idea is superior in every aspect of this mobile observatory
how am I able to “spot” cloaked ships thou?
no-one said that this new feature should combat bots, BUT…
ccp has said that their goals/mission is to minimize cheating/bots and that eve should be a lot more active gameplay /vibrant and fair etc etc etc…
This mobile observatory does not line up with the intended goals/mission at all.
It promotes botting and it’s not “vibrant” gameplay to an set an alarm every 15-20 min while you at home studying/having dinner / whatever.
nor is it fair or fun to burn isk just cause an “l33t pvp player” manages to operate an eggtimer.
that statement is false.
If i manage to scan down the entire system and warp to everyone to find out if they are friendly or foe… after that I can conclude that I did not find any foe’s… that still does not prove they are “active”.
it proves that they can operate an egg timer or… that they are botting.
IF they log in and out to bait an observatory, they have a negative isk affect on opponents…
so that really does not go in line with the “fair and vibrant” ccp goals…
imagine: “Hey guys… in eve you don’t have to play, or even be online to win the isk war!! Join today!!! //ccp games”
1)Check local 2) check standings 3) check your intel channels - or are you telling me BN has no intel channels ?! 4) talk on your intel channels before you deploy, my guess would be that alliances and corps will implement a few rules about deploying these, just in case there are friendly cloaked ships around … 5) in case of doubt, combat probe early, so you know who’s where and in which ship (screenshots with the ship names help) and 6) don’t do this in a system with sizable groups or systems with lots of traffic 7) use common sense.
whether it stays up for 60min or 90 min or 100min is an obscure detail.
I haven’t neglected that it is on a fixed timer aka i have not neglected a “fundamental mechanic” that would have proved that didn’t understand the module
so no.
you can meh-argue your obscure detail all you want.
it still doesn’t change the fact that the mobile observatory needs a lot of improvements to be a viable option… The best option would be cloak-fuel thou.
seconds best option would be a plain and simple EULA statement that you not allowed to cloaky camp for more than xx hours in null sov.
Yes. Let me stop you right there. That is all that is needed.
I never fly shiny ships with nuets in local, an cloaky or an observatory won’t change that.
I guess what im trying to say is: a cloakfuel that makes the cloaky campers actually move around a lot, would in fact net you more krab kills.
but whateves… “everyone” agrees that the cloakfuel idea is silly. cus after all your “l33t pvp” and not at all the true carebears of null.
offtopic:
I dont even fly a shiny ship at all, cus the dbm is ■■■■, there’s no point in krabbing anymore (unless you smartbomb farm ded sites)
It’s not an obscure detail. It’s how the thing works. The duration is central to your argument that the observatory is a 1bill ISK sink over a 24 hour period. WHEN IT IS NOT.
I know you really belive this… as i explained already, the manufacture cost of 24x42m = 1 bil was wrong. but what the real cost is going to be is impossible to say.
indybros want isk too, and then the observatory is equvilant ehp then that of a bomber (when counting in a bombers sigtank and the hp of the tower)…
what the real cost is … idk if math is correct…?
but to burn >one< for 24hrs is 672m (in indy cost) … so oh dear me… im off by 328m isk/day…
Well, if someone is so mad at cloakies, and deploys a max 10 of them at all times, each lasting 100 min, that would be a tad more than 14 sets in 24 hrs (= 1440 minutes). Or roughly 140 units * 40M (estim. prod price), for a grand total of 5600M. If such a person can be found, I will gladly invest in the blueprint, lol. Separating impulsive buyers from their money has been a staple in the economy since the dawn of humankind.
Ok so having now accepted that one of your bold assertions is wrong. Any chance that there is a possibility that some of the other claims you have been making are wrong.
Because I’m thinking thats a definite.
And for the record your numbers are still wrong. Lolz
there is no real benefits of having more then 1 at a time… sure, if gangs come in and kill them more is beneficial… but… meh.
correct my numbers then?
I get it as they burn for 90 min. so 16 is needed to be burning for 24hrs.
so it’s 16x42m = 672mil.
but you know, if indy bros take out a +20mil fee for them… the total is up to 1b/24hrs again.
(and that’s only if none of them are killed.) roaming gangs will just warp to it and kill it in less than 10 seconds… none has time to get in stations cannons etc etc like you seem to think.
The reality is that the use of these observatories will be few and far between. Most of the reactionary comments made in here seem to be based on the assumption they will be up in all systems all the time. I reckon we could be flying around for days and not see a single one.
Firstly for folk to use these things there needs to be cause. They need to see something in local that isn’t going away and cant be probed. At which point a decision may be made to pop out an observatory.
Secondly as i think you may have pointed out earlier. At least i think it was you. Corps have rules. So it may not necessarily be up to individuals. If other operations are going on the corp may not want the observatory deployed.
Thirdly, the threat of potential deployment in many cases will be enough to stop afk behaviour in active systems.
I though the idea behind this was awful when i first read about it but the more i read the more i think this is very minimal change that we will only encounter infrequently.