Mobile Observatories – Live on Singularity

[Hug_Motsu]

@Gerard_Amatin

You may be mistaken there.

A lot of people wanted something to be done about AFK cloaky camping. Mobile observatories do something about AFK cloaky camping.

Cloaky camping itself is fine and in no need for changes.

no im NOT wrong…
tl;dr. No cloaky camping itself is not “fine.”

im talking about cloaky game >mechanics<. The same mechanics also enable afk-cloaky camping.
aka. Afk-cloaky camping is a “problem” because it’s allowed under “normal” cloaky game mechanics.

Thus this observatory.

Thought experiment time:
If afk-cloaky camper was the only issue to be solved, the simplest fix would be a EULA update saying you cant cloak-camp for x amount of time, and that time also would apply to your alts.
but then people would say “but im hunting and it takes 2x for me to hunt blablbalba”
thus; it’s a problem related to cloak game mechanics.

i write: 'under “normal” cloaky game mechanics, to illustrate that this was the intended game development usage of cloaks. But ofc the “norm” with cloak today is indeed afk-cloak, thus it has become an issue that ccp is trying to fix.

@Algathas

All the problems you are expressing and experiencing would go away if you played in Highsec.

I’m not expressing any problems related to my own gameplay? I’m expressing a problem related to this new mobile observatory.
I might have talked about my own game experience, but not as a “problem” for >me<, because I’ve stated I found other games. Thus its more a problem of ccp.

@Wadiest_Yong

On a lighter note: multiboxing takes on a new shape. CCPlease ? For the merch shop ? Please ?

They should do it - if the idea goes live… cus then they at least can admit that they did their best of a bad situation (even if their best was far from good enough).

[Hug_Motsu]

@Algathas

Your missing the point that the hostile also doesn’t know exactly where the krab is either. With localb as-is the hostile knows exactly who is there.

the more I think about it… the more “wtf’s” enters my head.
If we gonna troubleshoot with radical ideas… that would affect a lot of other players to our wanted game style, like you are doing…

I’m pretty sure that:
the number of votes for “yes, let’s remove cloaks from null” would be more than the number of votes for “yes, let’s remove local in null” .

[Gerard_Amatin]

Hug Motsu, the issue you have is with cloaks, regardless of whether they are AFK or not.

Mobile Observatories are not intended to solve your issues with cloaks. Mobile Observatories are intended to solve the AFK cloak issue.

Please take your issues elsewhere, this thread is not the place for them. May I recommend the big AFK cloak thread?

[Hug_Motsu]

dude. the “AFK” cloaking is under the cloak umbrella.
You cant address the AFK:ing, without changing how cloaks work. as this mobile observatory proves.

So… ye, just stating that my detailed words were 100% correct.
also!
stop putting words in my mouth; citation of me saying I have a problem with cloaks pls?

also, im not seeing you telling the people that are discussing “removing local from game” in another topic… are you suffering from hipo-crazyness aswell?

[Algathas]

@Hug_Motsu

radical ideas…

As long and as ancient as the AFK debate has been, so has local been brought up through that whole time. So changing local is no more radical than adding the observatory, especially since local is the root cause of this mess to begin with. That local is used for Intel in this way is a huge flaw in the game design. We may be stuck with it because too many people have been using it as a crutch for too long but it doesn’t change the fact that it is bad design.

[Hug_Motsu]

@Algathas

So changing local is no more radical than adding the observatory,

that might be, and if so, “removing cloaks” is no more radical, either.

and also you’re avoiding what I said.
a democratic yes/no vote; “remove local in null” vs “remove cloaks in null”, removing cloaks I think would be picked.

but I guess that does not interest you… after all, I’m the one who wants others to adapt to how I want the game to be… yada yada yada.

@Algathas

especially since local is the root cause of this mess to begin with.

Please take your issues elsewhere, this thread is not the place for them.
May I recommend a thread about the perks of living in a wormhole?

[Hug_Motsu]

@Gerard_Amatin

Mobile Observatories are not intended to solve your issues with cloaks. Mobile Observatories are intended to solve the AFK cloak issue.

tl;dr
Mobile observatory does not solve the issues behind afk-cloaking.
At worst the observatory introduce undetactable botting.
At best; inactive alt-tab gameplay around an egg timer.

(which is still not good? becouse that is against ccps own stated goals … you know the same goals that has been behind this 1year long “starvation period”… so… really, “the best” scenario involves ccp giving ALOT of players a gut punch… just aslong as the fragile egos of l33t pvp cloakers are unhurt…)

[Derath_Ellecon]

@Hug_Motsu

At worst the observatory introduce undetactable botting.

actually it would make botting fairly detectable. While there may be players willing and able to actively camp a system all day, the vast majority cannot. So if you have someone in system for extended periods of time report them. Since they have to interact with the game on a regular basis with an observatory in system, I’d bet CCP’s tools would do a fine job confirming bot behavior.

[Hug_Motsu]

@Derath_Ellecon

So if you have someone in system for extended periods of time report them.

a decent argument against “the worst-case scenario” - even if it could be argued on so many levels, that you are wrong and we live in the age of sophisticated cheat behaviors that have developed from an annual online multi-billion “cheat” market.
At the very least… your argument would mean that a lot of ccp GM time would be “eaten” up simply because of a poor game design choice.

how about the “best-case scenario”?
you know where game mechanics relating to automatic/“inactive” gameplay styles are continuously being removed from the game.

Why should this not be applicable to cloak camping?
why should people who have been nerfed continuously, for over a year, see another group of players (the opponents) getting to keep their exact “buffed” gameplay?

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Hug_Motsu

You cant address the AFK:ing, without changing how cloaks work

Most here disagree with you, including ccp.

@Hug_Motsu

as this mobile observatory proves

It’s not even deployed on TQ yet, give it a shot. And who knows, maybe the egg timer will be a hit on the merch website, one for cloakies, one for afk miners

And gratz on your 10% coverage of this thread.

[Hug_Motsu]

@Wadiest_Yong

Most here disagree with you, including ccp.

who is “here” seems to be alot of crybaby l33t pvp’ers that play their game around hiding to only attack a target when it’s defenseless… you know, the >true< carebears of null.

logic and reasoning agree with me thou.
the only way to implement fun, vibrant gameplay around cloaks in a sov null is cloak fuel.
but the people who are “here” do not want fun, vibrant, fair gameplay.

also, you know… one would think that the ccp “mobile observatories” proves they are intertwined, as you know the ill conceived “solution” affects players that use a cloak, not player that “only afk camp.”

@Wadiest_Yong

And who knows, maybe the egg timer will be a hit on the merch website, one for cloakies, one for afk miners

There is no reason for an eggtimer for miners -their rock is gone within seconds to a few minutes.

[MB_ThePhotographer]

You cant pay for this kinda entertainment!

[Derath_Ellecon]

@Hug_Motsu

At the very least… your argument would mean that a lot of ccp GM time would be “eaten” up simply because of a poor game design choice.

There is a team dedicated to bot hunting. It’s what they do. It’s not like that team has other duties that bot hunting takes away from.

Honestly I’m not sure it even is true that this will have a massive rise in bots. WIth bot farming there is a financial incentive to bot. However there is no financial incentive to bot cloaking? You can’t make money sitting in a system all day AFK. Yes you can deny others but I question how many are willing to get their account banned just for that reason.

@Hug_Motsu

Why should this not be applicable to cloak camping?

Here is the problem I have with your fuel idea. That doesn’t combat “afk/inactive” gameplay. It literally is just an artificial limiter on the use of the cloak in a specific region of space. It will affect fully active players as much, if not more than someone trying to be “afk”.

@Hug_Motsu

who is “here” seems to be alot of crybaby l33t pvp’ers that play their game around hiding to only attack a target when it’s defenseless… you know, the >true< carebears of null.

And the name calling ensues. The true sign of an argument going south.

@Hug_Motsu

logic and reasoning agree with me thou.
the only way to implement fun, vibrant gameplay around cloaks in a sov null is cloak fuel.
but the people who are “here” do not want fun, vibrant, fair gameplay.

That is fhe funniest statement I’ve read. Just saying it’s so doesn’t make it so. Go ask Signal cartel how “fun” your cloak fuel idea would be as an example.

[MB_ThePhotographer]

I liked a bad idea in another thd because it benefited me. That still didn’t make a good idea.

[Hug_Motsu]

@Derath_Ellecon

. However there is no financial incentive to bot cloaking?

Yes, there is.
they skillfarm+get paid in isk to “oppress” and also gets isk donation for being content-‘hunters’ for bombing groups.

When they screw up and it’s revealed that they must be botting, they get the ban from these ccp “bot hunters” you speak off…
then they make a ticket and plead their “no evidence purely circumstance”-case… and get unbanned.

this has already happened? you might not believe it, I might not. but it does not matter what one believes.
this is the story that is passed around on corp coms and in player groups… and it’s already been mentioned in this thread. thus there is already an incentive to bot, as there seems like there is “no punishment” even if the bot hunters find out.

tl;dr ccp seems to unbans cloaky AFK bot-hunters already.
tl;dr eve botting is so widespread ccp has a “bot hunting team”
tl;dr there is no need for “financial benefit” to automating a task, still we humans loves to automate task as much as we can.
tl;dr there is no “financial benefit” to eg. haveing an +1000$ aimbot in cs go, still exist thou. So you can be sure it will in eve.
tl;dr observatory makes you win the isk war by not even being online, so you dont even hafto bot.

tl;dr THERE WILL BE AFK CLOAKING BOTS.
you think anything else your… well, I want to say “new to online games” …?
but well… your very naive to think there will be no botting (there already is).

@Derath_Ellecon

It literally is just an artificial limiter on the use of the cloak in a specific region of space. It will affect fully active players as much, if not more than someone trying to be “afk”.

dude. you just explained the mobile observatory as well…

what I gather “to be the problem” in this thread. regarding the observatory. The 15min immunization is “not enough”.
cloak fuel idea would mean “active players” would have eyes on target for a minimum of 45 min to a maximum of 240 min (depending on what type of ships they are in).
after that, they had to leave the system and refuel - somehow -somewhere … and start the hunting season once again

this way, it “cant” be botted and it does not support “inactive” / eggtimer gameplay.

@Derath_Ellecon

And the name calling ensues. The true sign of an argument going south.

im pretty sure i’ve been called all thiings already in here by the snowflake l33t pvp hunters.

@Derath_Ellecon

That is fhe funniest statement I’ve read. Just saying it’s so doesn’t make it so. Go ask Signal cartel how “fun” your cloak fuel idea would be as an example.

does signal cartel even need cloaks?
anyone else based out of a wh is rich af? also you know… the wh life is a harsh and unforgiving place… so why would that change all of a sudden, they have made their choice.
and also you know the golden rule of eve … dont fly ships you cant afford to lose. yada yada yada.
tl;dr no sympathy given.

[Mike_Azariah]

@Derath_Ellecon

However there is no financial incentive to bot cloaking?

Funny thing. I knew a guy who cloaky camped Russian systems for a few weeks then offered to stop doing it IF they paid him a fee. He actually was farming them by NOT being there.

m

[MB_ThePhotographer]

That’s priceless! Was he another Russian? Otherwise this the 1st instance I have heard of, of someone out “Russianing” a Russian! Those dudes are tough…

[Derath_Ellecon]

While I find that a cool meta, I’d still question whether he’d be willing to risk his account by botting to do the same.

@Hug_Motsu

dude. you just explained the mobile observatory as well…

Um what? not even close. Sure if I’m actively say exploring I’d have to worry about being decloaked, but I can cloak back up. But that doesn’t completely remove my ability to stay exploring in dangerous space for more than 45-240 minutes of cloaking.

@Hug_Motsu

does signal cartel even need cloaks?

HAHAHAHAHA. First off, you would do well to spend 30 seconds doing a quick google search before talking out of your @$$.

TLDR the alliance tagline is “a home for peaceful explorers” They are not WH based. They are not even aggressive. They explore all areas of New Eden, even SOV null. I’d bet that 99% of players fly something with a cloak. They pull in many new players (exploration is a very popular new pilot career). This playstyle relies on cloaking to stay alive. Many new players would have never ventured out of HS if it weren’t for the ability to roam with a cloaked ship in dangerous space.

Cloaky exploring is basically spending 90% of your life cloaked. You cloak while you scan, only uncloaking long enough to hack the cans at a data or relic site.

Thanks for killing an entire new player friendly way of life for large swathes of new eden with your cloak fuel idea, just so you can get a few campers out of some systems.

And yes I have a character who flies with them. Super nice alliance.

[Trii_Seo]

@Mike_Azariah

Funny thing. I knew a guy who cloaky camped Russian systems for a few weeks then offered to stop doing it IF they paid him a fee. He actually was farming them by NOT being there.

This is actually a thing - I have ran into folks that have extorted renters this way. What I found most terrifying about it was that those renters pulled in enough money per system that they could pony up the extortion money + rent and still presumably turn a profit.

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Hug_Motsu

who is “here” seems to be alot of crybaby l33t pvp’ers that play their game around hiding to only attack a target when it’s defenseless making mistakes or just being silly…

Sounds like a very good tactic, why would you risk your ship against someone who has the advantage on you, right ? That wouldn’t make sense, any more than your vibrant fuel idea. Which brings us back to your ulterior motive that spills out with every post. People, cloaked or not, attacking “defenseless ships” can hardly be called AFK can they ?

If those ships are defenseless it is by their choice and their ignorance. Or perhaps it’s because they are “pve players” who want to ignore the presence of others in an MMO, at least for the duration of their “pve activity”. If those then come to haunt the forums to whine about ganking, cloaking, camping, scamming, hot dropping, bombing, plexing, multiboxing, botting, scripting, simply having more sp or a better functioning cerebrum in general - just to name a few subjects, mind you, the real list is far longer - the advice is usually to try a different game (harsh, but not unexpected), usually accompanied by htfu/gtfo and other humorous language which one cannot call entirely misplaced.

My advice to you, however, is to try out hunting in a cloaked ship. You will see it will give you fun, good vibes, adrenaline, fill a few gaping holes in your knowledge of this game and the realization that there never was, and never will be, fair pvp, not here or anywhere else. And wasn’t that just what you were advocating ? Problem solved. Yes, the cloaky side has cookies too. And the best game wardens are former poachers.

Perhaps in a happier, better informed future stage of your EvE life you will think of your fuel idea and former cloakophobia as a bad dream induced by a particularly long krabbing session or a nasty F1 monkeying session under heavy TiDi. All hope is not lost. Unless of course you’re an advocate of a blue donut map as happened on Serenity, in which case this is all a lost, good cause. and you will be able to krab 24/7 and partake in staged fights *drum roll".

P.S. Any prospective SCM member willing to take the idea of the pod shaped egg timer to ccp central will have my supporting vote.