Mobile Siphons Remade To Take Fuel From Citadels?


(Terranid Meester) #1

Siphons do not have a role atm, why not make them so they can suck fuel from citadels?

How about every 15 minutes they take one piece of fuel and just like MTU’s can be attacked by anyone, anytime giving the attacker a suspect flag. It will last in space the same amount of time as a MTU too.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #2

they never did since the owners got a ping whenever you set one up. just was a balance mess between larger groups and smaller ones. i say good riddance


(Krysenth) #3

Siphons are dead. Their utility is limited to absolutely useless with structures because the only way these would successfully stay around long enough to be useful is if it’s an abandoned structure in the first place (thus no fuel to bother stealing). Fat chance at setting them up on active structures for very long.


(Terranid Meester) #4

I think you overestimate peoples competence at checking their structures.

Two things it would do, gain free fuel for your own citadels/to sell and increase the chance of sending a citadel into low power. Could do a quick 15 minutes out and then scoop per day for some guerilla warfare style gameplay.
Owner thinks they have fueled their citadel for x days when instead it is now fueled for y days thanks to siphoning.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #5

being able to go out put it down during a corps down time letting it run for an hr or two then grabbing it before the corp is active again is not healthy for the game


(Amarisen Gream) #6

I have to say I sort of enjoy the idea.

Maybe to balance it out -

Has a long online phase (needs to build itself plus set a connection to the structure), 30-60 minutes
Can’t be scooped
Pulles 5-10 fuel blocks an hour.
It last for 36 hours - takes 24 hours to fill up its cargo - this gives it another 12 hour window for the defender to react or the aggressor to pick up collected fuel.

@Terranid_Meester Just some advice, when you come to the forums with such a sort OP, once you get some feed back, it might be best to go back and edit it with more details. These guys will keep chewing on you for a long while, and they are willing to provide good advice. You just have to figure our for yourself what that advice is…


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #7

structures were meant for even the smallest groups to be able to use. many of them go days with no one online. There is no need for this module and all it does is adversely effect small groups

many services don’t even take that much fuel


(Ameko Tanaka) #8

Siphons were useless before and are totally unnecessary now. Want to steal? Go to an active field of moon ore and go ahead. At least now this is an active job and makes people direct targets which gives others an opportunity to retaliate. That’s the way this should be anyway. You do something against others -> make ready to live with the risk and consequences.


(Amarisen Gream) #9

And this means what? I only see you playing Devils Advocate with this topic. I’ve read enough of the forums and seen everyone complain about things that affect the small group or the large group. Shield timers being vulnerable at all times on Upwell structures is worse for a small group who as you say “go days with no one online”. If the defender is gone, anyone can swing by and remove their structure shields. Who knows, the defender might be offline long enough for the attacking group to burn their Upwell structure to the ground.

edit: So a statement like yours doesn’t really hold any merit, because there are already game mechanics that do the same thing.

Your statement made me wonder what the per hour use was…
(All just base numbers - not taking in the 20-25% reduction if fitted to the proper structure.

Standup Clone bay: 10 blocks an hour (7.5 if fitted to a Citadel)
Standup Market: 40 blocks per hour
Standup Capital Shipyard: 24 Blocks per hour
Standup Invention Lab: 12 blocks per hour
Standup Manufacturing Plant: 12 blocks per hour
Standup Reprocessing Facility: 10 blocks per hour
Standup Moon Drill: 5 blocks per hour

So it seems many Standup/Upwell services take as much or more than 5-10 blocks an hour. I am glad you caught that. :wink:

edit: I ask that before you make a reply, just as I told the OP, please check stuff and update it properly. You don’t seem to understand Upwell structure fuel usage. so …

bye bye


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #10

except the armor timer comes out the time the defenders choose and hull comes out the day and time

all except two take less than 10 an hr fitted to the right structure… so yes most take less


(Rovinia) #11

I like the idea. Could be handy to get all those abandoned citadels in the region you just conquered faster into low-power mode and reduce the grind. Give them an stacking penalty to balance the whole thing.


(Daichi Yamato) #12

This is how you do it. Hunt miners and transports, far more engaging than plopping a deployable.


(Old Pervert) #13

+1 for this.

With certain limitations:

  1. Anchor time would take 5 hours, De-Anchor would take 10 hours (if you put it down you’re expected to actually risk something)
  2. Citadel owners would get notification 12h after siphon was deployed (whether it is still online or not, including the owner of the siphon), meaning it would siphon for 7 hours “quietly”.
  3. Given the anchor time, rate of siphon would be quite a bit higher than initially stated in the OP
  4. Uses the ESS warp bubble mechanic

Would add an additional strategic element to eviction, allowing people who control space to run these to put structures into low power mode quicker. Groups that just dock up would quickly find their structures enter low power mode.


(Terranid Meester) #14

5 hours is very much too long for a mobile deployable. That just guarantees no-one will use them. Citadels take 15 minutes to anchor. I would say the Mobile Depot anchoring time of a minute is quite enough.

How would the bubble mechanic work in high and low sec?

If they work like MTU’s then there will be no real problem because there is always someone who can attack them. The amount of MTU’s dying on zkillboard is testament to this. The owner of a citadel can even scoop the fuel back up from a siphon.

Those who check their citadels will have no problem as they can destroy any siphons around theirs and can also check their citadel time from anywhere in the galaxy.


(Old Pervert) #15

The impact of these is pretty huge. You need to give the defenders a chance to react. This doesn’t just siphon off money, it literally makes their infrastructure a LOT easier to kill. An ESS, mobile depot, MTU, current siphon, etc, they all have very significantly lower impacts, not just to the specific mechanics (ones that have no strategic or tactical significance) they impact, but to the scale that they impact them.

I would only expect to see them used in warfare circumstances where you control the space (ie your opponents either won’t undock or have evac’d the system). Basically it’s a “you can undock and fight us now, or you can say goodbye to your structure faster”.

You’re assuming they’re watching it 24/7. They aren’t… at least, not in every case. Nor should they be expected to (an assertion backed by CCP’s stance on vulnerability windows).

By giving them 5 hours to notice it on their own, they’ve time to respond. By giving them a notification 12 hours later, they’ve got something to point out to them that there’s a fight to be had. Failing both of these, they lose high power status on their citadel.

As for bubbles in HS/LS, I’d say “meh”. Let it happen there. Just make the anchor point somewhere specific to prevent interdiction, and make it not act as a drag/catch bubble.


(Terranid Meester) #16

They can react, they can just take their fuel back from the siphons and then blow them up.
The tools are LITERALLY already there to combat an fuel siphoning. If folks don’t use them,
that is their problem.

They don’t need to watch 24/7, I am in no way interested in helping those who don’t help themselves.
Anyway citadels still have reinforcement timers even when in low-power mode.


(Old Pervert) #17

Unless you timezone it properly. You do it while they’re asleep, they come back in the morning and their fuel is gone. You already emptied the siphon with a cloaky hauler and ■■■■■■ off hours ago. There was no reasonable counterplay (again taking into account CCP’s stance on vulnerability windows).

They also lack things like clone services. If you deplete the fuel, rapid response becomes significantly harder while rapid response is made all the more important.

The way I’ve laid it out, it takes time. Groups don’t need to have constant monitoring of all of their structures, 24/7. They’re free to have real lives.


(Pleasure Hub Node-514) #18

I brought up a suggestion a while back. Two variations of siphons, 1. Neutralization and 2. Nosferatu. First outright eliminates fuels and the second ducks it into s storage bin.

Both siphon units block structure owners from adding or removing fuel from fuel bay while siphon is active.


(Pleasure Hub Node-514) #19

I’m fine with overnight fuel raids. As there is no limit to the amount of fuel you can currently store, a structure owner can avoid premature low power states by placing months worth of fuel in a structure.


(Old Pervert) #20

Certainly, I agree in the circumstance where one could stock up. Kind of a serious PITA for the defender though, thinking about being on the receiving end of this is just… annoying.

On the plus side, it would open up a huge opportunity for asymmetric warfare, especially against a larger more established force. Deploy like 50 of these every night in assorted random locations, blap them in the morning (or gather it I guess, but that sounds like work). Soon as they start doing half-assed forms because they know nobody’s actually going to defend it, you drop on them. Many lols.