Not sure what you are talking about here. Whatever was said in the threads, wasn’t the main issue. but LSG continuously spam re-opening locked threads was.
Whatever CCP was able to do in the past, recent activity has shown that CCP are currently not up to the task. Which is why I’m questioning your demand for modding to be conducted by paid staff only.
You’re right that it’s time-consuming but given the criticism that they get, from all and sundry I think it’s also justified to regard it as a job that’s also complicated and hard.
I would suggest that, moderation, by its very nature, when done correctly is always going to be selective, and this is because human beings are nuanced and complex - it’s not a straightforward positive/negative, yes/no situation and this means that moderators have to apply their intellect as to whether something is wrong or right. Because they’re humans, like all of us, sometimes they get it wrong, and sometimes they get it right.
In May, @ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode wrote, “I’m leaving this thread open for the time being, but I’m also going to be watching it super closely … I could close this for discussion of moderation, but I’m not going to so long as you fine folk play nice.”
This is a prime example of selective moderation and, IMHO, a very good one.
Allowing people to debate the principles of moderation, assuming that we act like adults was both brave and generous. The reality is that @ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode didn’t follow the rules exactly, and used intellect and intelligence to decide that maybe it was worth letting it run.
If you can’t recognise that this was a good thing that a moderator did, well I’m kinda lost for words.
Either way, I implore people sincerely not to completely cock up this thread by descending into pretty name-calling and obnoxious behaviour, because if we do, it will be shut down. And I think that would be a real shame.
As far as inherent bias and prejudice goes, the reality is that we all have this going on. To somehow suggest that mods are immune from this would be dishonest.
Having said this, do I think mods abuse their power on a regular basis? No, I do not. At all.
I definitely don’t agree with every decision that is made, but that is very different to having actual evidence of the abuse of power.
To accuse them of this without any shred of real and tangible evidence (and since we don’t and won’t know the specific thought process and/or mod conversations that led up to any moderation decision this evidence is in effect unobtainable) is not at all fair or justifiable.
Quite.
Yes.
5 character minimum
There’s some very selective memory going on in here.
Those calling for CCP employees to perform moderation should be careful what they wish for. At least 2 of you have accused CCP staff of bias when they moderated the forums in the past.
CCP created the Rules and Policies for these forums and clearly stated they apply to everybody. There is no loose interpretation of those rules, CCP specifically stated what the rules are. ISD are appointed to moderate the Forums and enforce all the rules equally among all posters, not be selective on who or what rule to enforce at their leisure. If for some reason a moderator isn’t sure if a post violates those rules, they can easily refer to CCP for clarification.
Selective Moderation is abusing the position entrusted to them. It portrays them as being biased and prejudiced towards certain posters and specific topics. What’s good for the Goose is also good for the Gander.
You say there’s no evidence of that? Here you go.
ISD recently jumped into this thread and removed unflagged replies that both me and Jonah Gravenstein had posted, claiming they were off-topic and said that a few ‘Edge Case’ replies were left active.
Those ‘Edge Case’ replies that he left active are not only off topic, they were actually flagged for blatant violation of the forum rules:
Profanity
Trolling
Flaming
Personal Attack
This type of selective moderation has been happening for quite a while now. If you can’t accept that as being biased and prejudiced then I suggest you check other threads posted throughout these forums, you’ll see they contain a lot more examples of that happening.
CCP Employees would be a lot more inclined to be fair and impartial in performing their duty as Forum Moderators. As somebody else said:
CCP staff hired for a moderating position have the skills to do it correctly. And as for bias, it will not be so blatant since their job is on the line.
Then somebody else posted this:
In fact, it would be HARDER to hold CCP employees accountable because there wouldn’t exactly be someone above them to hold them accountable or moderate the moderators now would there?
Sorry but that’s completely false. CCP Moderators would in fact report to a Supervisor who in turn would report to CEO. Not to mention the company Internal Affairs department would also be checking to make sure another scandal like T20 doesn’t happen again.
If you’re directing that to me since I’m being vocal about having CCP Moderators instead of ISD Moderators then you’re wrong.
Talk about selective memory…
Don’t involve me with your outrage, I have no problem with what @ISD_Buldath chose to do with my posts.
That’s not what you used to say about CCP Falcon…
I may not have liked CCP Falcons view on the game but I don’t remember ever saying he did selective moderation based on bias and prejudice.
In fact I disliked CCP Soundwave even more… But that’s another topic altogether.
How exactly do you know they weren’t flagged again. Are you hacking the forums somehow…
Also if they were replies to an off topic post they would be removed along with it if they continued the same thread as the off topic post.
Neither of these things show any ISD bias but in fact show consistent moderation of the forums. Just because you disagree on if something meets a threshold value or not does not mean ISDs are inconsistent.
I was active in the forums at the time when it happened and never received any notification.
Ok, so you think telling somebody to F-off is on-topic and fine.
You won’t receive a notification till it is hidden by flags. The first flag will normally not hide your posts unless you have a terrible rating.
I think it can be to be honest. In the language of today that’s no worse than telling someone to get lost. It’s context dependant.
I’m quite sure some who claim they want the rules more heavily enforced would be singing a very different song if your moderation was stricter.
The drive to restructure the way that the forums are moderated is predicated on the assumption that if changes were to happen, they would lead to a favorable outcome for the party pushing for them.
Which is to say, the people pushing for the changes aren’t arguing for a system that they feel is more fair and just, but rather they want to shake things up in order to gamble on the chance that whatever new authority replaces the old one, it might result in a watershed moment and lead to an era when the people in charge finally see things their way.
But history has shown that no matter how the forums were managed in the past, these people have been consistently ruled against. And now, as always, we enter a new cycle of their pleas and appeals, fueled by just one thing: the hope that maybe this time, the griefers will be the ones punished, for a change.
The egotism is almost palpable.
Not sure where you get your info but that’s wrong, the first flag hides the reply and sends you a message saying it can be edited after 10 minutes. The second flag sends a message that the reply is sent to moderators.
Meh if people don’t like the way the forums are moderated then there’s always reddit; alternatively they could set up their own forums and turn it into their own personal echo chamber via their own biased moderation.
I can literally promise you that isn’t the case.
I don’t think they actually give a rat’s ass about how the forums are moderated. They’re not advocating for change for the sake of fairness; they’re advocating for a system in which their viewpoints are protected and enforced by authority, while their opponents are silenced.
And the reason why they’re doing this is so that they can influence the continued development of this game without obstruction. They don’t want to debate other players - have you ever seen one of them make an actual argument that wasn’t just calling someone a “sociopath” or saying how something “will be good for new players”? No, what they always do is throw a few veiled jabs in order to steer the conversation off-topic, and once that happens, they start crying about personal attacks.
That’s their narrative; they have to show that the people arguing against them are villains, otherwise their entire platform is discredited.
Hi ! o/
This is my first post on here but after reading this thread it’s my last one too.
I created this account with purpose to better understand the game and participate in open discussion, encouraged by the statement that I could freely ask questions and engage other posters on subjects about EVE. But as I understand, there are two conflicting sides in EVE who seem to dismiss each other in this forum solely based on playstyle.
Since I also have my own playstyle, just like every other player, it means I will fall on either side of this forum conflict, if only by the mere action of liking a post. I don’t want to be categorized and then insulted based on that categorization without the hope of good, targeted and impartial moderation on those who like to insult others and after reading just a few threads, it seems that’s the case.
These are the signs of our our times: intolerance, hate, division and dismissal, and since I see that that those things are alive and well in this forum, with or without the help of moderators, I think it’s wise for me to leave it at that and wish everyone a good week.
May you all take good care of yourselves and each other.
Remember, it’s only a game.
PS: Didn’t mean it to be a response to anyone. I should have clicked on the reply button in the OP.
PPS: How do I remove myself from this forum entirely ? Thank you.
Good post and welcome to Eve.
Yeah, no problem on the accidental reply.
The only way to remove yourself from these forums is to log out and never log back in. However you can still view them even when logged out.
Don’t let this thread discourage you, the conflict lines are somewhat blurred and not as clear cut as they seem to be. The forums are as much a warzone as the game itself in that friends and enemies are made, wars started and causes rallied behind as much on the forums as they are in game.
If you have questions most of us will try and answer them to the best of our ability; that said the quickest way not to get help is to pose your question as a compliant.
For example “This happened to me, why did it happen and how can I avoid it happening again?” will get you good answers; whereas “this happened and it’s clearly broken, the game shouldn’t allow this” will get you ridiculed if it’s about an established mechanism and you refuse to accept that after it’s been explained.
PPS: How do I remove myself from this forum entirely ? Thank you.
I don’t think that you can.