Thoughts on Productive Feedback

Before life handed me the sort of lemons that put me on disability benefits, I had a not insignificant career in customer service, from call centers to cashiering.

After seeing some of the feedback on EVE Online here on the forums, I thought I’d offer what I hope will be helpful advice to those with legitimate concerns about the game.

Please note, I’m a newbro, both in the game and here on the forum. I’m not one who holds any authority to change anything about the game or the forum, and I don’t speak for any of the individuals with that power or authority.

With that out of the way, here we go.

  1. Be calm.
    Some of the changes in the game are upsetting, but it doesn’t help anyone if you let your emotions trample your reason. You can communicate you’re upset without yelling, using all capital letters, or making wholly emotional statements devoid of reasonable arguments to support your claims.

Take a day or three to calm down and think about why a change upsets you, and think about how you’d explain it to the person you love most.

  1. Be reasonable.
    There’s a certain type of person every customer service representative dislikes. They’re sometimes known as “Karens.” They are wholly unreasonable, can’t be pleased, and will treat everyone around them as lesser beings. All too often, they’re completely ignorant of what it would take to meet their demands.

If you want to see something changed in the game, ask your fellow players about it. Someone with a background in game development might be able to explain why your idea–as reasonable as it sounds to you–isn’t feasible.

  1. Be polite.
    I worked for a cell phone company. I was the guy you called when you dropped your phone in the toilet, your bill was too high, or your ex wouldn’t stop calling and you needed to change your number.

There were customers who were polite, but obviously frustrated. They understood I didn’t personally cause their issue, so we cooperated to overcome their difficulties. For those customers, I’d do everything I could.

There were other customers who took their anger out on me, treated me with disdain, and couldn’t listen to directions because of their arrogance. They’d call me for help and try to tell me how to do my job.

Those customers got the bare minimum I was obligated to do for them, if their rudeness didn’t force me to disconnect the call first. I’d go to bat for a polite customer every time, but the rude customers–who were prone to point out “the customer is always right”–found out that simply isn’t true.

You will get leaps further in life simply by being polite.

  1. Present some ideas.
    The U.S. Marines have a saying: “Present problems in the form of a solution.” Instead of saying, “This is a problem you need to fix,” think about how to solve the problem. When you go to the people who can change things, you can say, “We could do X so that Y doesn’t happen.”

  2. Talk to the right people.
    Speaking of the people who can change things, you should air you grievances with them. Maybe talk over the issue with fellow players in Local Chat or Rookie Help–the latter to a limited extent–but understand they can’t change the game for you.

Ditto for CSMs and ISDs. You can bring your grievances to them and they might bring it up with the folks that matter, but sometimes your best option is to submit a help ticket, or try to engage CCP customer service more directly.

  1. Be eloquent.
    Lastly, consider your communication skills. I’m not a great verbal communicator. I get flustered on the phone fairly easily these days (those damn lemons I mentioned earlier), and in-person my thoughts are easily derailed. I can write, though, which is why I generally prefer to do so when trying to resolve an issue.

Play to your strengths, and if you can, play to your native language. I applaud anyone who learns a second language, but unless you are absolutely certain you are as fluent as a native in English, I would advise you to communicate in your first language, if you can.

Scrolling down in the forums, I see what looks like Russian, Korean, and maybe Chinese, to name a few. That tells me CCP caters to a number of languages, so it might be best to write in your native language rather than try to communicate in a broken second language.

Oh, one more thing, in case it isn’t clear: the forums aren’t “CCP customer service.” I’m sure they keep eyes on the forums, but it’s likely one of the weakest ways to provide effective feedback to CCP.

Try their actual customer service, or ask the CSMs and ISDs about the best way to address your particular issue.


What’s with all the self important “social guru” threads started by relatively new forum people lately?

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:


I’m sorry to hear I came across as “self-important.” My intent is to help players communicate their concerns effectively for a better chance at seeing their concerns addressed.

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Uh, excuse me, I’d like to speak to the manager.


I have spoken to the manager. Trust me* when I say you don’t want it.

Certified* Trustable Forum Citizen

I hope you are going to complain about that stupid red ‘last visit’ line. If you need back up, I’ll be in Jita 4/4 for the rest of the evening.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

I’m loathe to bring it up with all the forum drama that has been going on of late, but you should probably take most things Mr. Epeen says with a grain of salt. He does seem to sometimes make sincere statements, and I won’t say that he never has anything of value to add, but he has also admitted to being a troll before. I don’t remember his exact words, and don’t feel like looking for the quotes again, but I remember quoting them to him once before. So, don’t let his negative spin bother you. You are one the most positive and enthusiastic newbros on the forums, and I would hate to see that beaten out of you by forum nonsense.


he has admitted it on his alt, foggy

I am guessing that the intention of the complaining parties isn’t to gain a real solution. The “disruption” is likely by design. Might as well be a bot and their alts, constantly trying to trick people into wasting their time with pointless debates. I try to do some logical fencing, but I often just end-up contributing to the spam. Just my perspective as a fellow “new forum person who posts self-affirming threads.”

This is nice, though. We need more nice capsuleers. Kinder folk are usually that way due to harsher experiences, tempering their tolerance for discomfort. I appreciate you and know you will solidify whatever group you choose to join.

First off, Foggy and I are both alts.

And secondly, while I said I occasionally troll (if I actually did say it), you and your entitled self righteous buddies are never not trolling.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

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A noble goal.

Here’s the thing. The same ten or fifteen people and their dozens of alts are the only people that post here and they’ve been doing it for years. They always say the same thing and deride the posts of the same people.

Most of them are tribalist infants that never reply to what’s being said. Just to who is saying it.

If you had spent some time reading before posting your essay on forum etiquette, you’d know you were not the first to do so and were most certainly wasting your time.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

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Be calm and reasonable? Go to hell with that! If CCP keeps doing things that are not good for the game despite the users that actually play the game tell them continuously, reason and calmness have no meaning anymore. They just don’t listen.

If CCP keeps lying about things (see them talking about no one would know how a certain change would play out when virtually everyone but them knew exactly how a change would pan out and that it did exactly as predicted), calmness and reason have no place anymore.

People did and CCP took them, discarded them and came up with something much worse. Example: The cyno changes where people said that the covert cyno would take too much time to train and that logi cynos should stay untouched. CCP took that idea, threw it away and came up with the hideously annoying industrial cyno with even more limitations than the covert cyno.

Pointing out issues in feedback topics is the right venue and the right people should read these topics … only to ignore valid feedback.

And here we have it. How can the official game forum be the weakest place to provide feedback and talk about ideas? How come that reddit, twitter or facebook are supposedly better places, while they are all venues that CCP has no control over. Support Tickets are not a good way to provide feedback, as customer support is outsourced and has very little to do with actual CCP.

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I shall return to this establishment with a slew of partisans and desolate this place to the ground :nerd_face:

Mais qu’est-ce c’est que ce bordel !?! Allez allez!! faite votre boulot ou dégagez de là, Bon-à-Rien!!

Well, seeing as if you open a Support Ticket to give feedback you get told to post on the forums, I’d say posting on the forums is in fact the right place to be posting feedback.

This is distinct from requesting help with an actual game bug or difficulty, of course. But since you specified providing feedback…


Well, whether by accident or design, it does seem this forum has become a sort of bottle for trolls. I suppose they could clean it up…but you could say they have a legitimate worry that the trolls will not actually vanish but just go infect the better places.

To them it might be like fixing a system that is not broken…though this forum is by my estimation.

This forum isn’t broken, good sir. It’s working as intended. Quit being such a drama queen and htfu… sir.

The problem is if CCP actually enforced the rules they set for their Official Forums, by the time they were done there wouldn’t be any posters left.

For the matter. I asked ISD about the subject of “forum PVP” some time ago. (Of course you don’t need to take my word. Just make a ticket yourself if you have interest.)

Examples of what is allowed within the forum rules:

  • Discredit some previous poster, pointing his opinion is biased.
  • Snarky/sarcastic comments about some previous poster
  • Manipulate him to do something stupid against forum rules, resulting in his punishment
  • Say he deserve to be ganked over and over until he decide to quit
  • Gank him, or contract some mercenaries to do it because his forum behavior

Things is againt the rules:

  • Saying the person I’m responding too have a psichologial/mental disorder in real life
  • Threatening him in real life
  • Complaining about forum rules and moderation.
  • Whinning about getting some punishment.

As it stand, conflict in the forum is allowed if not encouraged. There is more restriction in some areas (e.g. New citizen) but mostly you need keep it within the forum/game and that is it.

Its not really your fault — Players such as myself should communicate respectfully. The issue is the timing of your suggestion…CCP has not been terribly forthwith for sometime now…it makes players…agitated.

This is how the Amarr act. Don’t take it personally.