It's not just these forums it seems

My entire time in EVE i’ve heard complaints about the developers lack of forum participation. My personal take has been along the lines of “why would they”. People can be truly horrible about things and vent non-stop at the devs. If I were a Dev i’d have to be ordered on pain of termination to put up with that stuff.

And as always, it turns out that it pretty much like that elsewhere.

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I fully understand why CCP devs don’t really touch base with their community here on these EVE forums. It’s really just the same 17 people who post here: half of them are trolls, almost all the others just can’t stop showcasing how badly they are adjusted to society, any society. It’s a cesspit of meaningless drivel, social awkwardness and, for lack of a better description, mental issues.

There’s really just a small handful of posters who genuinely want to add something of value in a reasonable and thought out manner.

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I wonder if the Paradox devs moved to the same place that EVE devs did? That bastion of non-toxic communication. A place where players help players with quality advice and brotherly love.

You know… reddit.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

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It could be worse. CCP could be Riot and just shut their forums down and use r/eve as the (un)official forums like they did with League of Legends.

Well if they didnt love money so much they wouldnt put up with us so I feel Ive paid enough to say what I like.

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Indeed. It certainly the “player toxicity” is what in common between CCP and Paradox and not the lazy cashgrab mechanics, meaningless updates, and unpopular decisions.

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Even without “toxicity” from the community the “devs” should not be on the forums for at least 99% of the time. They should keep themselves in their work bubble to keep their tasks progressing. It’s far too easy to get distracted - as I’m sure they already are with meetings and company emails and w/e else.

However, our community managers (and some DO communicate discretely and efficiently) could probably be a bit more talkative, if that is in their job description - but only to the level they are allowed to, and provided they do get the OK to release the information we yell, beg, and yearn for, and provided they themselves get that information in the first place when they ask for it. Yes, today I’m empathic, but no promises for tomorrow :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

And yes, I also think the o7 Show was the best communication tool CCP ever had, they forced themselves to provide us with valuable information via interviews, showing work in progress etc. I wish that initiative would be revived, wouldn’t be too soon.

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I think a core problem here is that the forum does not seem to have full time dedicated moderators but rather developers trying (and failing) to do an adequate job of moderation through intermittent checking here.

One recently excused himself saying “I have a job”. Yep. And keeping this forum on track does not seem to be the one paying the bills.

So I don’t know why they are trying to “do it all” but the result is horrific and it would be great if they would pass the baton to a small group of people dedicated to doing the janitorial job here properly.

BTW I just got off a one week ban and I was not given a reason. No post was removed or edited. It seems that my sin was to simply be in an argument with a troll…sort of like when your big brother starts smacking you so you defend yourself, then mom walks in and grounds you both, saying its because you were fighting, but actually its for interupting her favorite soap opera plus she has a penchant for slamming around dominance.

“Just us” has been served. Lame.

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My feelings exactly. With some of them, I wonder if they actually play the game. I usually check in here each morning before I begin my work day, and with almost every thread I look at its the same people, insulting, sarcastic, with the same endlessly swirling arguments, because of some pathological need to get the last condescending word on each and every issue.

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Imagine CCP dev. Flying a ship in TQ HS. Even
Carebear will gank them.lol

Yeah. But don’t make the assumption its just the players here.

Here’s a clever idea: if you want your community to spend their time sharing tips on Chianti varietals and discussing the finer points of transhumanist influences on the evolution of international monetary systems, maybe don’t make a game about stealing each other’s stuff and blowing ■■■■ up?

Have you considered the possibility that some people find this enjoyable?

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Ingame Corp chats has the same behavior. Nothing new.

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Its common courtesy to pod CCP dev.

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Find a better corp.

I can’t. I’m the only member of my corp.:grin:. I already part ways with my former NPC corp CAS and Castabouts.

Developers not being able to deal with toxic communities when they deliver these communities the material for its toxicity. Golden. :innocent:

“If you want to have a forum where developers are willing to go and answer your questions, then it is also your responsibility to build a place where we feel welcome, and where we can disagree in a productive and professional manner,” Archangel85 said.

This is particularly rich. If we are supposed to provide developers a welcoming environment to pamper their fragile egos, it is their responsibility to give us paying customers gameplay experiences that are not bug ridden, faulty, exploitable, or simply horrible experiences despite the feedback that the studios value so much. Since this is not the case for most studios and developers despite the “months of hard work” that was put into the features, players have to continue to deal with crappy experiences and thus developers don’t deserve better treatment either.

Developers expect us players to be nice and cozy towards them but only very few actually deserve this experience. In the case of CCP, I do not think that anyone but the people around Karkur deserve this nice and cozy attitude. It is usually only her and her team that introduces actual gameplay improvements that make the game better.

Other developers at CCP? They keep breaking things for the sake of breaking things, they keep telling us that they have a plan without telling us the plan despite saying they would, or they leave issue lingering for weeks, months or years despite players suffering from the features “giving them valued feedback”. These developers don’t deserve nice and friendly attitude. If they want to have better experiences, they ought to change their attitude and development quality.

“It costs you nothing to assume that we were acting in good faith. None of us wake up in the morning and go to work in order to do a bad job.”

Again in the case of CCP, this is really hard to believe. Their track record of ignorance towards feedback and outright toxic behavior of leaders (CCP Hillmar’s Monocle gate’s " Former developer CCP Zinfandel even recently claimed that the Incarna pricing disaster was a direct result of Hilmar’s interference. Pétursson allegedly told Zinfandel that he “has no balls” and then multiplied all his prices by a factor of ten just before the expansion’s release. comes to mind) speaks for itself. An argument could be made that developers are being put under undue pressure from financial and stakeholder interests (as it was the case in the above instance or CDPR’s CP77 debacle), but then they should speak up against these interests to have a better work culture and environment that enables them to make better games and game features. But saying that toxic players drive people out of companies, is at best half-accurate.

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blizzard is bad about not communicating either, at least with its ENTIRE player base… they specifically ignore those who play on consoles.

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That’s because everyone else is banned.

The only step they’re missing is shutting down the official forums.

What? These forums are overmoderated.

There’s a few instigators/problem causers and ISD knows who they are but won’t do anything.

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