Moon mining, notifications, beacons and times


(Ryan B Thiesant) #1

CCP has gone a lot of the way to improve the availabilty of mining in high sec, thank you.

Is there any way you can improve the visabilty of moon mining.

Currently its a word of mouth, which does cement fellowship.

But for the solo player, both miner and the refinery own perhaps there could be a way of advertising the availability of:
a. moon minerals coming
b. the or schedule
c. perhaps the ability to turn this on or off
d. A way for the refinery to charge for the ore mined.

I thought that the moon mining beacon should be viewable from any distance in the overview.

A rollover graphic similar to the vulnerability timer could be used to show when the next one will be available.

And the refinery may have an option of turning this off.

I also thought about refinery levies. And it should be also possible to charge for mining the minerals. This is an extension of what station can already do.

I have thought about these in term of balance. And am interested to hear what you think.

Ryan


(MinerArt) #2

Many people will tell you this is not what the point of a sandbox game is. Refinery buildings also give all the information you asked for except the “levies” on mining rocks in space.


(Daichi Yamato) #3

It shouldn’t tell you when another persons moon belt will be ready. But if a structure owner wants it to be public they can update their structures bio.


(Ryan B Thiesant) #4

Many people would say that sandbox does not mean Multiplayer. And many people would say that Multiplayer does not mean Team vs Team.

The next thing you will say is that Solo PVP is wrong. Please tell me when exactly CCP banned solo play. SoI can tell them that their recent Abyssal Deadspace, should be stopped. https://updates.eveonline.com/date/2018-05-29/

“How EVE Online is embracing the solo player with Into The Abyss expansion” https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/04/25/eve-online-into-the-abyss/

Here is a picture of a lone cruiser in the new deadspace, “solo play”.

Now I know you are trolling. Which is a form of solo play.

Thank you for your comments.


(Dyver Phycad) #5

This is unfeasible as CCP’s understanding of pricing is hideously terrible. Recently, Resplendent Kernite was massively overvalued in the value estimation although the relevant market prices in Jita and Amarr had already fallen well below that estimation value. Taxes are, however, calculated by that estimation value which means you either get too much or too little from the actual value.

This is also a reason why taxing ore compression is not feasible.


(MinerArt) #6

That’s PvE…


(Lily Inkura) #7

Why do CCP need to do this? If it is in the interests of the refinery owner, they can already advertise.

As @Daichi_Yamato notes, owners can currently include details in their refinery bio as to what they mine and when. Some even publish this information via a weblink that gives a complete schedule of dates and times. These links have even been made available via posts on this forum.

Otherwise, it is up to you, the solo miner, to find them. Start by asking about scheduled mining in your region?


(Lily Inkura) #8

This already exists. The refinery can see who has mined how much ore via their mining journal and they can then send you an “invoice” for a suitable tax amount. Whether that invoice gets paid, and how they incentivize you to stop mining if it is not paid, is surely a major part of what this emerging gameplay is about? It is not for CCP to raise that tax on their behalf.

On another of your points, I started solo (read: ninja) moon mining when it was first released in low sec. You get a rapid feel, from the distance of the asteroid to the refinery, for when the next belt is due. My estimates were probably correct to the day. And of course, I then bookmarked the moons with the best ores, and toured them at a regular basis. Nothing stopping you from doing that in high sec as well.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #9

it’s literally added to the calendar for those with roles from there it’s up to your management to… you know manage?

we had 25 moons across 4 corps we just made a google doc that showed the schedule it’s even easier if you are all in the same alliance/corp


(Ryan B Thiesant) #10

Firstly thanks for replying. Glad you agree that there should be control at least to have the minerals public or not.

But wouldn’t it be simpler to just have it appear in the overview or wherever, at the flick of a switch?

You can also write in the bio if you want.

But the reason for the feature request is that looking through the bio of every refinery in every system you visit, is taxing! I agree that the information could be put in a bio. But I disagree that writing in a bio solves the complexity of the whole feature request.

Personally, a lot of things can be written in a bio but it does not make it true. After a few months, I have seen things in a bio to make you blush. I’ve also seen station names say they are “5% tax” and then they are not.

Sorry just writing a bio doesn’t cut it.

As per the Structure browser. I can see a filter for “moon drilling” It’s good but incomplete. It does not show when the moon mineral will be available to mine. It also does not show if a refinery has moon drilling! (see picture)

Wouldn’t it be easier simply to see a beacon in the overview? Or perhaps a symbol next to a refinery in the overview? I’m not saying the information should not be elsewhere, just that it’s availability and reliability has been overlooked.

Hence the feature request.

Thanks.

Picture of a refinery with empty bio, and the name ‘moon ming soon 05.04.2018’ taken on 05 12 2018.
44

Picture of the upwell mining beacon only visible close up in the overview with moon drilling filter ticked. minerals on the overview. And a filled out refinery bio.
The moon drilling filter shows no refineries!

Points to note . There are 8 refineries in Tarta. 2 I have mined in before. And one i mined in yesterday and people are still mining today. But you would not know unless you manually reviewed every bio, and then warped to every refinery.

Note to self: do scanning probes find asteroids?


(Lily Inkura) #11

That is your problem.

Again, your problem.

Why should it it show either of these things? Moon drilling is not a public service. Plus, refineries are player-owned ie private structures.

I disagree that it has been overlooked. It is just not necessary for you, an individual, to have this information by right. You can get the information if a particular refinery owner wants you to - or, if you do the work to find it out for yourself.

You can use combat probes to find all the refineries in any system, including the ones that are not shown on your overview. Again, you just need to do the work yourself.


(MinerArt) #12

The minerals are public regardless because asteroids are still asteroids… You don’t even have an argument on this supporting your statement quoted.


(Daichi Yamato) #13

You’re talking about the game doing everything for you so you never have to interact with anyone. I fundamentally disagree with this.

I prefer that you have to organise with the owners and the owners have to be organised. And they get a lot more freedom to choose everyone’s level of involvement.

Overview items appearing based on access lists may be technically difficult. Remember you cannot see your own missions on the overview.


(Ryan B Thiesant) #14

Thank you for replying. I am glad to hear your point of view. I have tried to answer you as best I can.
But I am interested to know if you are a miner or refinery owner.

And this post is for those that are experiencing the same problem. What is your workaround for finding moon ming sites?

And this post is for those that are experiencing the same problem. I’m feeling a bit of a trend here.

So you agree visibility is to be controlled by the refinery owner. I think it should show these so that people can mine the minerals. Btu am happy to have this at the refineries control. I think it would be better be able to charge for the minerals, to create revenue for refinery own via a tax. What do you thinks about that?
As I might own a refinery some day. I have seen that in bio people are asking for a friendly kick back forming the ore. Wouldn’t this suggest that there is a wider need than my own? this is in response to…“this is your problem” is not actually limited to me.

So it seems you opt for the information to be made private for those that wish it. But as you have alluded to, the ore is not private - out in space. And what if a refinery owner wants people to come to mine? How will they advertise their ore? Right now people are advertising in their bio. For me, this is a good indication of wanting to advertise bu the ability to do so is not available. hence the feature request.

This is good to know that I can use “combat probes” to fine refineries. Can I use this to fine ore sites? Or scan down the site as warpable beacons?

Thanks for your input.

As you can see from the images, my replies that some refinery owners want the moon belts public and some want may want them private. And from my point of view, “your problem” is not restricted to me.

I gather that you want everything to remain the same - and have no change in the game.

Thanks

Ryan


(MinerArt) #15

This problem is that you want all information hand spoon fed to you. The solution is to ask the owner of the refinery to share that information with you. If you don’t want to do that then your problem is you being anti-social.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #16

i know this is a little strange to do in an mmo but i think you’re supposed to talk to other players


(Ryan B Thiesant) #17

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. God know this conversation has not been easy.

The agency is a CCP example of a “spoon feeding”.

I am actually quite shy, But I join a mining SPIG on occasion and join in the convo sometimes.

I think with your obtuse responses espouse a personality that seems unsuitable for a public or private forum. yet here we are.

Maybe you should look into Myers Briggs, which says there are many different personality types. Some personality types like challenges.

Viva la difference.

BTW please do not use the agency panel. I might be report you for making EVE too easy for you.

Ryan


(Ryan B Thiesant) #18

Hi, how are you? As a matter of fact, it is by talking to another player that I found out that this feature could work.

Are you a miner or refinery owner?

Ultimately, i’m finding the resistance to change or even the suggestion of change a little “challenging.”

Do you think the “spoon feeding” will kill conversation?

Ryan


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #19

i will direct you to my previous post

of those 25 i owned 15

so yes i am well aware of how it works and how easy it is to get organized


(MinerArt) #20

The agency is a major failure because it doesn’t teach players to be social.

Claiming to be shy then instantly throwing out an insult is a contradiction.