Multiple layers of resistance debuffs in abyssal PvP


(Numitor Eto) #1

Hello,

the current 25% resistance debuff is just not enough for mid to high tier fits to break - even a cheap layout fit for maximum tank can force a stalemate currently. The 25% have drastically decreased the number of stalemates, but they are still very common. You just don’t see most of them on the killboards, as the vast majority of them (from my experience and that of many others with whom I have talked about this) end with one of the parties ejecting for a negotiated compensation.

Properly tanked fits, especially those with deadspace X-Large Shield Boosters simply can not be broken without multiple wrecking shots in a row - even after the debuff - with a ship that has enough tank to hold until the debuff (this discounts the 1400dps buffer Vedmak that could barely break a properly tanked ship after the debuff, but never survive for more than a few minutes). With the ongoing tank arms race this makes abyssal PVP a game of chance currently and leads to a lot of frustration, especially when people refuse to negotiate.

My suggestion (not really my suggestion, but the outspoken consensus among the people I’ve came across in abyssal and talked with afterwards) is to introduce another layer, or even multiple layers, of resistance debuffs or increasing the current debuff. The possibilities I see here are:

  • Adding another resistance penalty after another 8 minutes
  • Adding several 10% steps or completely replacing the current 25% with 10% steps up to a certain level (probably the best choice, as the current 25% lead to a very rough change of pace for people who do not use a stopwatch)
  • Increasing the current resistance penalty after the first 8 minutes (less favorable, see above)
  • Having people take constant “unstable abyssal depths” damage within the boundary after X minutes (may severely hurt ships that rely on drones like the Curse, Ishtar and Gila, who are really popular. So this is probably a bad choice, but it has been brought up by someone)

Thank you for reading this. I am shocked noone has suggested this here yet.


(Enoch Vicor) #2

Did you just say make Abyssal space harder?


(Numitor Eto) #3

Not at all. I’m just talking about the interesting part of abyssal space. Should have made my point clearer, sorry. Edited my post


(Sagitta en Welle) #4
  • Adding several 10% steps or completely replacing the current 25% with 10% steps up to a certain level (probably the best choice, as the current 25% lead to a very rough change of pace for people who do not use a stopwatch)
  • I confirm this

(Ailok Konem) #5

The current system is clearly not enough in certain situations. For example if 2 well fitted Deimosțes meet eachother there is a high chance none will die.
So yes. I support this and suggest further penalties with every 8 min step.,


(Salt Foambreaker) #6

It was a bad idea, they should move it to the CQ.

Who wants to do multiple instanced PvE sites just for the chance to PvP in non-PvP fits when you can just go to a FW plex and PvP all day long?


(Baron Goodwill) #7

I personally think that 25% debuff is not enough. Maybe either repair/boost cap or layered debuff -10% every 5 minutes, after the initial -25% debuff.


(juifferson) #8

maybi just add -25% armor amount/shield boost amount , +25% energy use for armor rep/shield booster , -25% capacitor , + make implants ineficient in pvp room can bi good think.


(Felarhin Bahnmuller) #9

I think to eliminate stalemates you need a little bit of everything because even if you add a stacking debuff, certain fits will still be able to kite endlessly. Can you make the ring shrink over time too?


(EVE0S) #10

What would be the winner in a Tournament if no one dies => THE BIGGEST DPS.

  • Tanker are a shame. Blow up their ship.
  • Stop resist debuffs
  • Make the ring shrink over time
  • Start DPS multiplier

The way resist debuff is applied is wrong!

  • This helps tankers setup and it’s a shame.

(Numitor Eto) #11

Adding information:

A) Relevant Reddit threads:

I ran several versions of this Ishtar through 30 fights between 30th Nov and 4th Dec - can confirm you can not beat it. All losses were stalemates. The possibility of fitting an XLSB just destroys the entire concept of abyssal PvP. The Muninn and the Vagabond are two other ships that can fully utilize it, albeit not as well as the Ishtar.

second one includes the info that the “balance team that’s working on Abyss stuff” may already be working on this “situation”

B) I got in touch with some of the active abyssal runners who brought up some concerns:

  • Increasing the resistance penalty may just accelerate the tank arms race to a point where dps becomes an irrelevant stat. We will probably see active tank / resist bonused HACs than before and HICs may become the go to ship class
  • Armor tank is suffering more from resistance penalties than shield tank, because you can not oversize armor repairers
  • Bling tank may become a requirement to run abyssal pvp, which would hurt the people who aren’t willing or able to invest multiple billions of isk into a single ship that has a 100% chance of exploding sooner or later

(Sepheir Sepheron) #12

Waow 3 bil ishtar forces stalemates? Almost like a 500 mil curse immune shield boosting kite vaga can do the same thing… If you’re that much of a feeder that you throw 3 bil just to stalemate you have problems. Also that Ishtar has no prop or tackle… Just bump it out of the arena you have 30 minutes to do it.


(Baron Goodwill) #13

There is a big difference when you can choose your fights or leave it up to the dice roll.


(Sepheir Sepheron) #14

This ishtar sucks. It will get defanged and feed. Might as well fly 3 bil worth of tornados to gank a single abyss gila.


(Baron Goodwill) #15

that is your philosophy, just try to enter the abyssal pvp and see how it goes there.


(Sepheir Sepheron) #16

It has no tackle. It needs heavy drones to deal any damage which are slow and explode immediately and take a million years to get anywhere. Anyone who loses to this Ishtar doesn’t know how to lock drones. Stalemate for 3 bil is a big price. Tech I omen could stalemate this thing.


(Baron Goodwill) #17

It is a sort of psychological test, are you willing to commit yourself to a battle with no escapes?


(Baron Goodwill) #18

[Curse]

Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System
Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System

Pith A-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Pith X-Type EM Ward Field
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
10MN Analog Booster Afterburner

Medium ‘Ditch’ Energy Neutralizer
Dark Blood Medium Energy Neutralizer
Corpii A-Type Small Energy Neutralizer
Dark Blood Medium Energy Neutralizer
Corpii A-Type Small Energy Neutralizer

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

‘Augmented’ Hammerhead x5
Caldari Navy Vespa x4
Imperial Navy Infiltrator x5

Mid-grade Crystal Alpha
Mid-grade Crystal Beta
Mid-grade Crystal Gamma
Mid-grade Crystal Delta
Mid-grade Crystal Epsilon
Inherent Implants ‘Squire’ Power Grid Management EG-605
Inherent Implants ‘Squire’ Capacitor Management EM-804

Agency ‘Hardshell’ TB9 Dose IV
Strong Mindflood Booster

Just tell me, how can this fit not dominate arena as long as you have isks? That’s to say until we run across each other.


(Baron Goodwill) #19

So Sepheir, your are not ready to discuss abysal pvp.


(Sepheir Sepheron) #20

Nope just using common sense. 3 bil ishtar is way too expensive for an abyssal suicide gank. My point was there is a way cheaper way to force stalemates. Just fit full tank on any cruiser and massive excess cap recharge.