Please take a look at Abyssal PVP

(Gustav Mannfred) #1

I know this is not my first post on Abyssal PVP, but as you might have noticed on zkill, it is almost dead. The gate now only spawns for the first 1-2 hour after downtime and then the gate won’t show up again until next downtime(I am aware that it is summer and activity drops). Also, there is still no better solution for the stalemating issue(even thought I and several other players brought that up multiple times).

Problems:

1. Stalemating:

After 8 min there is a 25% resistance drop, this helps in some cases, but not always. For example, when 2 Deimoses meat each other, there is no way one would break the other. So the timer just runs out and both die. This is not fun and not the way it was intended. It should be two enter, one leaves.

2. Gate spawn rate:

In December, when I started Abyssal PVP, the gate was open all the time when I wanted to play. Since April, the gate only spawns from DT until 13:00 Evetime and then it is done until next DT. Also, the Arena has never been realy available to US TZ pilots, which is bad. There is no lack of PVP pilots, the real problem is that the arena is not available like 90% of the time. Even on weekends there are now only 4-6 kills per day, in January it used to be about 2 full pages on zkill(!)

3. Ikitursa:
When that ship got released, I was really hyped, until I found out that now everyone uses that and only itself can kill it. I know that it might is not possible to ban one specific ship from gate activation(only whole classes can as far I know). The Ikitursa is also balanced very strangely. Its resistance profile exactly matches its own dps type, which I don’t understand the point. The empire factions T2 ships have resistance profiles against the opposite’s faction dps(Minmatar have better EM/Therm resist as amarr does that dps and gallente have better kin/ther as caldari does that dps). But Triglavians opposite faction are the drifters that do equally distrubuted omni dps. There is no counter against that ship exept itself and only after resistance drop.

4. Loot:
What I also pointed out several times, is that loot sucks. Most of the time you only get 5-10 mil worth of materials and some damage mod mutaplasminds(where even the unstable ones are only worth 30 mil). When you risk that another player comes in to kill, you want better loot. For example low sec sites pay more than hi sec sites as other players can freely engage you there.

5. Pay 2 win:
The probably biggest problem is that you have to spend 5 bil+ to be really good. Most newer players can’t afford that. I know there are some cheap fits like the orthrus, but they get wrecked by regen gilas(which are usually PVE pilots that took wrong gate by accident).

Solutions:

  1. As mentioned, add more resistance debuffs, like 50%, then 100% and finally all resistance set to 0. It should also affect Ewar resistances(especially neut resistance). Also make the arena shrink after each effect. This would be a nerf for those TD Orthruses and Damp ships that just want to make sure both die. The ships would then just get moved relatively to the new position.
  2. Make the gate spawn 100% of the time, no matter what. So everyone can do abyssal pvp and is not forced to log into the game at specific times. This will balance by itself. First, more pve gilas go in to get the extra loot, which then leads gankers in that want to kill pve gilas. Then it will bring in ppl that look for a real fight.
  3. The Ikitursa(and all other Triglavian T2 ships) need a look. I don’t know what the point is to give a ship a good resistances against its own damage type. Giving it onmi resistances(like the Tiamat and Hydra) would make more sence, since Drifters do omni damage. 40% for all shield and 45% for all armor resistances make more sence. This would allow more ships to kill the Ikitursa other than itself. For example high dps vigilants, Orthrus, Cerb etc…
  4. Improve the value of the loot. If you risk your ship, you want better loot than just 5 mil of materials. For example you could add PLEX and Skill extractors, and some skins to loot table. Maybe also a small chance that the cache drops random faction and officer modules and pirate ship bpc’s + implants. This would make the arena more attractive for everyone.
  5. Add a small arena to tier 1 and 2 sites, where only ships can enter, that cost less than 100 mil(hull + fit). The loot will not be as good as the normal arena, but it would give newer players and players not willing to spend billions of isk a way to participate in Abyssal pvp.

Quality of Life:

  • Add Local chat to arena so you can chat with the other player and not have to open a private chat to say gf every time
  • Add a timer until the resistance drop enters

I am aware that not all of the players like instanced pvp as EVE is a sandbox game, but I have to add that almost all MMORPG games I know have that in some form. You just log in and then the server checks for active players and you get matched randomly.

Let me know what you think

3 Likes
(Salt Foambreaker) #2

1v1 PvP was a mistake.

Having the “PvP Queue” being a PvE instance was an even worse mistake.

These are all symptoms of that.

Best just remove the instances.

5 Likes
(Gustav Mannfred) #3

why was that a mistake?
why is PVE part as queue bad? This prevents very cancerous fittings from entering. If someone brings a Lachesis with 4-5 damps, then the fun really ends

(Ms Steak) #4

Well, maybe Deimos’ cap regen should be looked at or, even better, cap batteries should be re-balanced so fitting oversized one (or even 2!) on a cruiser isn’t an option anymore…

IIRC CCP did say that they wanted to tiericide and re-balance cap and shield regen modules in nearby future including stacking penalties affecting them.

Novelty wore off, prices on loot plummeted so way less pilots are running them - not enough to meet threshold for gate to spawn. Making gate 100% will just lead to extensive farming in cheapest hulls possible during non-prime time causing loot to be worth even less.

price restriction will do nothing to help the situation - more stalemates, more pay to win (1 -2bil in implants, boosters and other consumables), more loot to devalue it for everyone else.

As for the rest: the whole idea of “fair” 1v1 PvP in EvE is stupid. Game isnt balanced around solo fights

(Nevyn Auscent) #5

It’s like the Trigs fight amongst themselves a lot for ‘provings’ and therefore design their ships to fight each other… It’s not like it perfectly follows Trig lore to be like this, oh wait it does.

(Gustav Mannfred) #6

As I mentioned, if ppl farm the arenas at non prime times, it will attract pirates to the arena for sure. Novelty just wore off as gate does not spawn in US and east asia tz.

(elitatwo) #7

Lore wise, the triglavians are a lost Amarr sect.

(Gustav Mannfred) #8

then amarr T2 resist would make sense like on the zarmazd, then the situation will be a bit better already and Iki vs Iki could lead to a win even before resist drop.

(Nevyn Auscent) #9

no, they aren’t.
Stop pushing a lie.

2 Likes
(elitatwo) #10

But the Zarmazd has a bright and shiny Amarr icon on the hull!!!111111eleven

Which part of that is difficult?

Looks pretty Amarr to me

(Nevyn Auscent) #11

That is because that is a T2 ship developed from the T1 trig hull by the Amarr.

1 Like
(Siegfried Tahl) #12

The first modification of Triglavian ship design using the methods of Tech II invention and construction, the Zarmazd builds on the Collective’s [Rodiva-class] support cruiser to create a logistics cruiser adapted for capsuleer use. The Zarmazd’s design combines elements of the Amarr [Guardian-class] armor logistics cruiser’s technology with the Triglavian ship frame, energy system and signature adaptive mutaplasmid repair system.

All T2 Triglavian ships are in fact Empire Faction modifications. Read the description.

1 Like
(Gustav Mannfred) #13

@Ms_Steak you said that game is not balanced around solo fights, you have to check patch notes for april release. Since the you get concorded when you remoterep someone with an active duel in hisec. So the game got even more balsnced for solo fights.

Also, pvp in abyss was originally requested by players.

1 Like
(Ms Steak) #14

If you want to call THAT balancing for solo fights then (lol) so be it…

(Makshima Shogo) #15

I agree with you Gustav, pity there are so many trolls with no decent feedback, the continual resistance debuff is still needed CCP know but its probably just too difficult for them to implement at the moment.

The t2 resistance profile will not be an issue once the staggered resistance debuffs come in, Cerb comes to mind for natural counter as kin damage and high therm tank seems to be triglav weakness, found this out when I easily defeated a kiki in a kite hawk.

I would prefer 3v3 frig abysal as bling would not matter so much as a solo fight, bling would give an advantage for sure but you could still get wrecked when 3 frig’s worth of damage comes pouring in.

The gate spawn rates are a pitty, but that’s only because of the stalemate and bling requirement’s to get in, fix those 2 and more gates will spawn when more people become interested in abyss pvp. But I mean like I tried it once and ended up vs you in my first pvp round and stood 0 chance never did it since as I’m not interested in risking 5b just for a fight, it could be the same for lots of people.

An option is to have a minor pvp “TrialGrounds” gate which only allows fit’s without any module higher than t2 + no implant’s, then a lot more people would enter and I mean a lot more people like 50x more, but this is dwarfed by what 3v3 would bring to the table.

2 Likes
(Salt Foambreaker) #16

You answered your own question. You were wondering about stalemates, this is why you have them.

1v1 is bad period, if it is balanced it is a stalemate, it is a fools errand.

Having the PvP Queue be PvE prevents PvP fits and causes stalemates.

The system is a fail design.

(Gustav Mannfred) #17

I do not mean PVE ships that can not break each other, I talk specifically about ships like that https://zkillboard.com/kill/77237037/ or https://zkillboard.com/kill/75202284/

without PVE part ships like that will appear more often and they actually are more likely to cause stalemates. This huginn will just kite at 40 without ever getting locked for 30 min. I was thinking about a proving filament or so as well to get directly to arena, but first CCP needs to fix above listed points. Otherwhise it all ends up with pilots flying throw away T1 cruisers with scram and damps/TD just to make sure both die.

An alternative would be to just ban ships with any ewar other than web, scram or target painter fitted from entering, but that is hard to implement I think.

(Salt Foambreaker) #18

That’s how PvP works, if you can’t hang, go play WoW.

(Ololosha Jouhinen) #19

what the hell are you talking about? Iif you do not want to fight 1 on 1 it does not mean that others do not want. So you also try to comment on the discussion of the problem of that part of the game in which you do not even participate. Abyss PVP need rework its fact.