Mutaplasmids are now live on Singularity

Eve desperately needed this, I understand completely why RLML or drone tracking hasn’t been nerfed now, because they knew long ago that ships would be receiving lower sig’s and higher speed’s.

I for one welcome back Sig tanking, ALL HAIL MUTAPLASMIDS!!!
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1 Like

This whole RNG hell should never get to TQ. The bonuses are completely insane and are going to have awful consequences. I think the effect should be reduced drastically. T2 MWD that gives +550% speed bonus, while expensive DED version is just +518%… this is ridiculous.

6 Likes

This is cancer and needs to be immediately removed. We don’t need this. We don’t want this. I go from being a cool space engineer to a stupid space alchemist. How will this work with the compare window? How will this work in fitting simulations? Now I have to have sliders on some subset of modules? If you all decide to move forward anyway, at least make the bonuses require overheating.

Edit: I also suggest we add some sort of decay to these items. After a year of usage, they should burn out. Also, using these enchanted modules should cause cancer IRL. Like every time you use it you might get cancer of the butthole.

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Even with just gravid mutaplasmids and T2 modules, people are getting mutated modules more powerful than anything in the game currently.

It would be possible to fit frigates that can outrun light missiles and drones. Mutated webs fit to serpentis hulls will web up to 99% speed reduction. There are plenty more examples of how blindly adding percent modifiers to module stats gives exponential and game breaking returns.

Here are some options on how they could be made more reasonable (suggested by others):

  • Change mutaplasmid bonuses to be to the overheat modifiers on modules (rather than their base stats)
  • Limit the maximum increase in power you can get from a mutaplasmid to the equivalent of raising a module a few meta levels (ex. can’t change a c-type module into anything more powerful than a-type)
  • Drastically reduce the percent bonuses (to 1/5th or even 1/10th of their current levels)
  • Some combination of these

If there is not a drastic reduction of the potential bonuses, mutaplasmids will absolutely destroy the current state of module balance, which has been carefully tuned over a decade and a half.

4 Likes

I too hope CCP reconsiders adding this system. I love the complexity and careful balance of current ships. Now you have to make many choices involving complex trade-offs when choosing a ship and making a fit; it is a deep and rich mechanic. Powerful RNG modules will completely wreck this system and destroy a great feature of eve where knowledge > isk and turn it into a tedious grind of rolls and contracts where isk > knowledge.

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I speak for a lot of people when I say that the addition of RNG based module enhancement is a big step in the wrong direction as far as balance is concerned.

It is my hope that CCP reconsiders the addition of RNG “enchantments” to Eve.

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The RNG is fine but it just needs to be toned down a bit and it needs to scale with a module’s meta level as to not obsolete faction, deadspace and officer modules, higher meta modules should get a higher % boost and lower % negative for each stat.

Example:
Current:

All meta’s -40% / + 40%

Suggested:

meta 1: - 10% / +2%
meta 5: - 5% / + 5% T2 Being the balanced point.
meta 8: - 6% / + 7% Faction
Meta 10: - 5% / + 8% Deadspace
meta 13: - 4% / + 9% Low Officer
Meta 17: -2% / +10% High Officer (Still some loss else everyone would always do it)

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what is the probability curve for the benefits/drawbacks?
is it flat or is it a normal distribution?

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Hard to tell without doing a test over like 100 module mutations:

But I guess there could be a hidden probability curve with a fall off at either end to make the center more probable and any extreme highly unlikely.

More than likely something like this (Logically) but only CCP would know :confused:

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We look forward to your feedback about this new content.

Your entire playerbase is in an uproar and you are on the cusp of another Incarna incident. Let that sink in. You remember Incarna? When one in five players left with their money? Have a look outside of Jita if you forget. We are rocketing towards that same thing happening again by the second.

Even a cursory glance at any EVE form on the internet can tell you this at an instant, which leaves only one possibility. You genuinely care so little about our opinions that you can see our disgust, and refuse to register it. You don’t look forward to our feedback. We can tell because when we give it, you don’t care.

Our feedback is this: That this design, this ridiculous RNG system that fits no part of our game you are currently forcing it upon, is a mistake.

But as made clear by the lack of response to our shock and horror, nothing will change. You’ll deploy this expansion without a care, probably delete my comment, and generally take years to fix this. If you decide to fix it at all.

As of now I am canceling the automatic subscription purchase that I have had unquestioningly set up for the past several years. If nothing changes in the next few months, I’ll leave. And so will everyone else who pays you.

Tick tock.

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It’s changes like this that have turned me away from Eve more and more. Look at Reddit (reddit.com/r/eve), or the forums, and you see so many people expressing their dislike and problems with these mutagen RNG mechanics. It’s clear the dedicated player base does not want this change, and anyone who’s played with RNG mechanics such as this in other games before will know that they don’t feel good and are just bad for the game. I’m not going to go into too much detail about it because there are countless threads on Reddit and this forum about it, but yeah, these mechanics should not make it to live. Not under this iteration, or any future iterations.

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I’m surprised that there isn’t a single Dev response on this yet, even something small will calm everyone down, remember thou this is the test server for a reason guy’s, where CCP can implement extreme game breaking change’s without consequence for testing purpose’s.

I highly doubt CCP would release these modules as is without nerfing them quite a bit, so calm thy selves :stuck_out_tongue:

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I’m surprised that there isn’t a single Dev response on this yet

They developers have almost certainly been told to not respond and implement this anyway. Look no further then the unhappy atmosphere at fanfest, or even better yet the letters of resignation from our key staff that had a huge impact on making this game what it is. The developers themselves aren’t even happy about this.

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To be honest a few tweak’s will stop it from being game breaking it doesn’t even take a rocket scientist to figure it out xD

40% stat modifications is brutal, something like 2-5% would already make it a hell of a lot better.

Although if you look at when Fleet boost’s where introduced to the game that is stat boost’s by the same % but yea its not compounding with each module so its not on the same level, but the game still found balance after that.

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To be honest a few tweak’s will stop it from being game breaking it doesn’t even take a rocket scientist to figure it out xD

It will take more then a small change to make it balanced. You need to understand the scale of how much these sites will be used and grinded continuously. Asking if Abyss sites will be ran much is like asking how many ratting sites get ran across nullsec and other space today. If it is profitable, it will be played constantly. Mutagens will be on the market in the thousands, and lower-teir abyssal mods will be commonplace on plenty of ships within six months.

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Yip the entire meta game will shift, but I don’t see this as a bad thing, as rapid lights and drone’s are super dominant atm so shaking it a bit is fine, as long as it doesn’t become 2007 again when vagabonds where flying around at 5km/s lol’s…

Problem 1 easily solvable.

Those huge % value’s problem 2 also easily solvable, I think CCP can balance it and you will probably be surprised in a few months when its balanced that it could be balanced.

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When I was a kid I though RNG based enhancements on gear was cool and I was drooling over fully enhancement pieces of gear from guild mates and friends I was grinding day and night until I could get a higher enhancement than my friend, then as I was growing up and played more and more types of games and getting a better understanding of game design and monetisation styles I understood what those type of enhancements did to the players the game and the business behind the game. Now things like this disgust me.
If you intent to add the mutagenes in their current form I don’t think I will stand to play for much longer.

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I’m really concerned about the RNG nature of the mutaplasmids, especially as they are currently looking on SiSi. They add an unrewarding grind by pushing RNG “loot enchanting”, a feature that’s been done to death in lots of other MMOs, and generally isn’t well regarded.

EVE’s mutaplasmids don’t fit sensibly within the existing framework of ship fitting. PvP encounters will be vastly more random, making planning and forethought significantly less important. This makes undocking less fun.

The mutaplasmids don’t fit sensibly within the existing framework of ship modules. Tiericide has been going on for years now, with a very careful eye to the intricate balances between modules and their potency, fitting cost, ISK value, etc., but space-enchanted modules will completely upend this balance and undercut the balancing work done so far.

The mutaplasmids don’t fit sensibly within the existing contracts/market UI. There is already no way to differentiate between varying levels of muta-enchanted items in the inventory window, and this will be an even worse nightmare to work with given how contracts and the market function in-game. (Let alone how this will be handled through ESI!)

The mutaplasmids look and smell like needless power creep with needless dice-rolls attached. Not only will the enchanted modules (that end up being used) be vastly more powerful, they will have gotten there not because of player-driven ingenuity or dedication, but simple stubbornness at throwing ISK at the enchanting table until a good roll comes up.

It doesn’t sound fun. It doesn’t feel like it fits in the game. I haven’t been sold, as a player, on anything that these mutaplasmids actually add to the game. What are the positives? Why should I be at all excited about a grind-y, RNG-driven, space-enchantment system?

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Abyssal deadspace seems alright, but the mutaplasmid system seems completely dumb and out of place. Even putting assuming the best intentions, I have no idea what the value add of this system is to the game. You can already do some pretty crazy things with ship fittings if you are willing to spend the isk. It seems like a very lazy system to leverage existing mechalnics rather than code new ones, while placing a very large bomb under the years long painstaking effort of tiericide and ship balancing.

I saw the keynote at fanfest. Very few people were excited by any of this. I watched it live and had the same, confused reaction. People were more excited by PI changes. Also I haven’t heard one thing about how to actually sell and trade these mutated modules. This is like… the very obvious question from a gameplay perspective. If ccp doesnt have a solution for this, i cant imagine theyve carefully yhought through the mutaplasmid system. CCP sadly has a very long history of undervaluing playability and usability, and not really thinking through certain things, and also releasing broken content. The playerbase is right to be concerned, and Seagull’s departure isn’t helping things.

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I too would like to raise a voice of deepest concern for these changes. EVE needs more careful balance, and adding a newer and more powerful set of modules will only walk backwards hard balance work that has been done over the past few years.

4 Likes