Mutaplasmids constitute Gambling


(zluq zabaa) #1

Basically this.

Rolling Mutaplasmids is a so-called “chance”-based activity which is highly addictive. It has all the typical properties of gambling.

  • the incentive is to profit (in ISK or use-value) from great rolls
  • in order to play, you need to pay (in online-labor to create ISK or in real money to buy PLEX for ISK)
  • the statistic chance for you to not lose in combined value of the input vs. the output is low
  • the more you are willing to pay per roll (Unstable > Gravid > Decayed || DED-item > Faction > T2 > T1) the higher your chance to lose a lot of value, with the incentive to gain more if you pay high
  • the rolls are not entirely RNG, they are rigged. (you can test this cheapish with Decayed Mutaplasmids on Meta T1 items)
  • it’s not so much that a good roll brings you to roll again, it’s rather the great number of bad rolls that might encourage you to go all-in, in order to re-gain your previous losses
  • thus, it can be highly addictive

It’s not a question if, but how many people are already spending real money or real time to gamble with Mutaplasmids.

Is that legal? Do we need to protect fellow players from selling their cars for the chance to gamble on Mutaplasmids?

What are your opinions?


(Dark Engraver) #2

Other games do it so yes I’m fine with this


(Whitehound) #3

It makes fights a bit more unpredictable when an Abyss module finds its way into a cookie cutter fit.

One of my old time favorites, Diablo II, was all about random rolls. I cannot say I dislike seeing a bit of randomness on modules.

It makes contract trading more interesting, too.


(erg cz) #4

Used two metaplasids becasue of event. Lost both time. Cured - no addiction. I do not think there is a problem.


(zluq zabaa) #5

Right, the possibility of cookie cutter fits is nice (well in theory, in practise it’s mostly too expensive). However, this is not the point. The question is: doesn’t it constitute gambling?


(Whitehound) #6

Depends. Turrets use randomness to determine hit&miss as well as quality and height of damage. Does this constitute gambling? If not then it’s just randomness, but if yes then we’re all pretty deep into it already. Same with ECM. Or jumping through a gate and not knowing what’s behind it is also a gamble.

I’d say he shows signs of an addiction. Not sure if I’d blame ECM for it.


(Remiel Pollard) #7

This is not gambling in any legal sense.


(Jeremiah Saken) #8

do they? Can we change the odds?


(zluq zabaa) #9

Care to explain how it isn’t?


(Whitehound) #10

Yes, we can change the odds, but it remains a random event.

A next question would be: does using different modules with different mutaplasmids count as a changing of the odds? I’d say yes.


(Remiel Pollard) #11

No. You haven’t explained why it is, yet. But put simply, monopoly money isn’t real.


(Daoden) #12

Gambling also requires someone to lose in order for someone else to win wether it’s the house or the guy across the table from you. In this instance the person selling said modules/mutaplasmid only wins because they sold an item on the market which happens as is already. The person mutating something could win as well.


(Alpha Askiras) #13

This and loot box mechanics are not gambling because you always get something (in this case bricked modules), even if it’s not the thing you want. Gambling is different because you may get nothing. Gametheory did a video on this a while back


(Whitehound) #14

I would actually not base a discussion on the legal aspect of it. For one, because it’s different for different countries, but more importantly is the topic addressing the mental health of players, which should always be a primary concern and not “How do we fend this off when we get our asses sued?”.

I’d say the chance for someone buying stupid amounts of PLEX only to buy officer modules and mutaplasmids to roll the ultimate items is certainly real. But it wouldn’t be new and players have already spend a lot of money only to buy PLEX and then get it blown up while hauling it in a T1 ship.

For an addiction to fully kick in does it need a little bit more, like being able to actually profit from the result. Neither the prices for Abyss modules are fixed, nor will competition leave much room for insane profits, and neither do the Abyss modules guarantee the ultimate victory. So I don’t quite see where the gamble triggers the pleasure centre of the brain to make this into a full blown addiction. The next ship loss is always around the corner to put a dampener on any euphoria one might get.


(zluq zabaa) #15

It is, if you can consistently buy more of it with real money.

I explained how I see it as gambling in the opening post.


(Jeremiah Saken) #16

If we can change the odd it is not random. If I can get my guns under optimal condition to hit 100% there is no random. Only random thing is critical hit.
Edit: plasmid are irrevelant here.


(zluq zabaa) #17

Yes, good point about losing vs. winning. On average the person who gambles with the Mutaplasmid machine, loses, while the house wins. The house wins because someone who get hooked on the Mutaplasmid machine, might buy PLEX with real money in order to be able to carry on with the gambling. One could raise the question wether or not the transmediary currency of ISK would countn as an inhibitor here, but taken the huge supply of it, I don’t think so. The gambling addicted know that there is the clear path from Real Money to PLEX to ISK to another round of gambling. He or she only needs to pay in order to gamble.

The fact that in the rare case of a player win it does not yield a real money price, could be considered as well. However, if your gambling win is in form of currency, a car, a haircut or an immaterial object seems of little importance. Otherwise there wouldn’t have been the previous bans on in-game gambling.

edit: Of course we can start looking into spoken and written law of the different countries (which I did partly already because I’m used to), but that’s not why I bring it up. The question is: isn’t this potentially encouraging dangerous addictive behavior beyond the normal scale of an online game?


(Whitehound) #18

Even at 100% hit chance is the damage height itself still randomized.


(oplek oplek) #19

May as well be arguing that any RNG in the game is gambling.


(Arthur Aihaken) #20

It’s only gambling if CCP says it is.