nope, it being an isk sink is a consequence of its existence. It does not mean it’s its role.
just like your fence cost is a consequence of your fence purchase.
Wrong. It’s an isk sink because it fits the definition of an isk sink : it removes isk from the game. Does not mean it was its purpose when designed.
So again, what proof do you have it’s its purpose?
And maybe they provided it already. Hence my question.
What ? Prove it please.
Not at all.
As designed.
Lp stores weren’t made and then left.
Like i said, semantics. You seem to be putting a narrow focus on the transactions at an individual level and dragging the thread off topic.
Does not change my point.
If you can’t prove that the LP stores were designed to be isk sinks, then you can’t affirm “that would defeat their purpose as an isk sink”.
WTF ?
You are the one getting off topic.
Your affirmations about cost and purpose are a total nonsense. It’s not semantic, it’s in total opposition of the definition of the terms. You affirm that any consequence of a choice is a purpose of this choice ; this is just plainly wrong.
I don’t understand what you think I focus on the transactions at an individual level, and I just don’t get how it fits in the topic.
LP is a reward for who did the missions.
I see it ridiculous to add more stuff so i can get my reward.
BTW LP change is one of the solutions but i think it is good one also.
Most are in the 400 million range for both pirate and navy. Barghest is an outlier - twice as much as the others - basically what most of the others used to cost. Presumably means the bpc’s are harder to get. Tempest fleet is also an outlier - 25% cheaper than its peers. Not sure if that means it’s a bargain!
Your math seems sound, but I still don’t think that justifies changing the price of navy battleships. The “correct” price of LP, along with the price of everything else you listed in your post, is entirely market driven, which means that they’re largely player driven.
Which leads to one of the inherent problems with LP stores that I’ve always seen: if there is one highly desirable item in an LP store, that item will drive the ISK price of all items from that LP store, even ones that are less desirable and should be less expensive due to lower demand.
The issue here isn’t the individual LP cost of any one item, or series of items, it’s that the LP store system can artificially drive up prices on certain items because other items from the same store are highly desirable. (But I felt that was beyond the scope of this post so I didn’t go there in my initial reply.)
(Ultimately I think we’re kind of on the same page here. We both see the LP store as borked and artificially driving up the ISK price of certain items, we just disagree on the mechanics.)
totally agree with you on that part.
That’s why I said the ISK price of the items should be lower.
The biggest thing needed to fix navy battleships is to fix pirate battleship rarity. The bulk of pirate battleship BPC’s comes from DED’s which are easily farmed in nullsec and are pretty hard to catch people in unless the person in them is AFK/not paying any attention to dscan or local. This generates a surplus of pirate battleship BPC’s with no easy way to stem the tide, short of scanning down every DED and parking a hunter on the gate.
Simply put, pirate battleship BPC drop rate needs a substantial nerf from DED’s. Maybe removing 50% of the drop rate and then transferring 25% of that drop rate into lowsec belts (like mordus spawns). This does 2 things, shifts wealth around from nullsec to lowsec and makes pirate battleships rarer, which will fix the T1 -> Navy -> Pirate progression. As currently, its pretty much T1 -> Pirate.
As far as navy battleships go balance wise, they also need a rebalance. Things like the Tempest Fleet Issue need to be rebalanced to be brought in line with the Firetail, Stabber Fleet Issue and Hurricane Fleet Issue (tracking bonus and RoF or Damage bonused).
The Typhoon FI can lose the gun bonus for literally anything else, as every other projectile platform is better than the TyFI with guns.
Navy Geddon got even worse after they buffed the Abaddon, where the one “niche” the Navy Geddon had (AFK structure basher in HS) was removed, since the Abaddon’s gun dps rivals the Navy Geddons gun+drone dps now. Could be interesting if it got a damage bonus (instead of RoF) and an armor HP amount bonus (like the navy aug) and moving a high to a mid.
Raven Navy Issue needs more fitting and i’d like to see it lose a launcher and velocity bonus and gain a damage bonus.
There are quite a few tweaks that we can do to navy battleships that don’t make them OP, but make them more competitive. This will help people choose them for what they need, rather than just defaulting to pirate since you get more bang for your buck.
I would like to mention that there is an issue for the requirement to get some ships from LP store.
Some type of payment require Tags for named NPC which i believe rare to find.
How players going to get those tags to get Navy ships Other than buying it???
you answer your own question.
Either it’s seeded on the market and then no worry buying it.
Or it’s not and thus can be found in the game.
That is not what i meant.
First let me know how to get the tag of named officer like Hakeem or Tobias … ETC?
Why would I search that for you ?
Named Tags is rare in eve so i belive they should remove it from being a
requirement to get ships.
Example :
Draclira Merlonne’s Tag
In design LP stores are not meant to be nothing more than LP->isk conversion, the idea is the person might actually fly the ship.
It was done to make these ships hard to get, and thus rare compared to normal T1 ships.
Navy ships is expensive .
That what i am saying.
Dose that price reflect the benefits ?
Price vary between 650 M - 950 M ISK.
When ships that cheaper and worth 450M is better in use and more available.
So this is a second issue which why the navy not better in use compared to pirate ?
I think that related to the price also.
I would like to do two type of comparison between the navy and normal one
then to do navy and pirate one.
All of that just to convince editing the requirement and the price to be lower and more attractive to get.
Here is the list for T1 and Navy one
Apocalypse Navy Issue
Apocalypse
Armageddon Navy Issue
Armageddon
Dominix Navy Issue
Dominix
Megathron Navy Issue
Megathron
Raven Navy Issue
Raven
Scorpion Navy Issue
Scorpion
Tempest Fleet Issue
Tempest
Typhoon Fleet Issue
Typhoon
Now i will compare the Apocalypse And Apocalypse navy issue.
What not mentioned is equal by default.
The Navy one is different in :
1- More 3K structure HP .
2- More 3.5K armor HP .
3- More 2K shield HP .
4- More shield recharge rate (+890)
5- More 25 M3 for drone hanger.
6- More 25 Mbit/S for drone bandwidth.
7- Less cargo capacity.
8- Less time to turn which mean better agile like -4.
9- less signature (-10).
10- More scan Res (+25).
11- More range to target (+3.6 KM) .
12- More Radar strength (+5) .
13- More speed (+7) .
14- More low slot (+1) .
15- More CPU (+40) .
16- More PG (+1000) .
17- More price (+266 M ISK) .
Notes:
*Normal BS and navy BS has same Trait.
*Apocalypse Navy ship is not shield one nor the normal BS.
*My recommend is to remove 3 and 4 and add those to number 2 and number one like
+1400 HP to armor and +1400 to structure and make same shield capacity and recharge rate
to both of the BS.
Now let us see the result between Armageddon and Armageddon Navy Issue .
Again as default they are equal with what i did not mention:
1- More +2K structure HP .
2- Less Drone capacity (- 175) .
3- More cargo capacity (+125) .
4- More +3K armor HP .
5- More shield capacity (+1700) .
6- More shield recharge rate (+890) .
7- Less Capacitor capacity (-200) .
8- Less Signature (-50) .
9- More targeting range (+1.5 KM) .
10- More Radar strength (+5) .
11- More speed (+5)
12- More low slot (+1) .
13- More high slot (+1) .
14- More CPU (+10)
15- More PG (+4000) .
16- Less Launcher Hardpoint (-5) .
17- More Turret Hardpoint (+2) .
18- More Price (+264 M ISK) .
Notes:
*Normal BS and navy BS has Different Trait .
*Armageddon Navy ship is not shield one nor the normal BS.
*My recommend is same as Apocalypse navy which removing number 5 and 6
and add that to structure and armor like more 1250 HP for both.
*Any other attribute is fine for me cause the different in those two ship characteristic.
Not let us compare these two:
Dominix And Dominix Navy Issue .
What not mention is same for both ships but the navy is:
1- More structure HP (+2500) .
2- More Drone capacity (+25)
3- More cargo (+95) .
4- More Agility (+5) .
5- More armor (+3000) .
6- More shield (+2300)
7- More recharge rate (+890) .
8- Less capacitor capacity (-500) .
9- Less signature (-10)
10- More Magnetometric Strength (+3)
11- More med slot (+1) .
12- More CPU (+60) .
13- More PG (+1000) .
14- More Price (+383 M ISK)
Notes :
*Similer trait for one Bonuses.
*More Damage for the navy but longer range and tracking for the normal one.
*The two ships is meant to be armor so i recommend removing the ability for 6 and 7
and add them to the navy on in armor and structure like 1550 HP .
Let us see what is the diffrint between Megathron and Megathron Navy Issue .
The navy one is :
1- More Structure HP (+3000) .
2- More Drone capacity (+100) .
3- Less Capacity (-5) .
4- More agile (+9) .
5- More bandwidth (+50) .
6- More Armor (+3000) .
7- More Shield (+2700) .
8- More Shield recharge (+890) .
9- More Sig (+5) .
10- More Megnetometric strength (+4) .
11- More speed (+8) .
12- More high slot (+1) .
13- More CPU (+30) .
14- More PG (+775) .
15- More Launcher hardpoint (+1) .
16- More price (398 M ISK) .
Notes:
*Normal BS and navy one has same Trait.
*Both meant to be Armor .
*I recommend that number 15 be replaced to be turret.
*Same as before any shield addition need to be converted to armor and structure.
Now let us compare between the Raven and Raven Navy Issue .
And as usual the default is (what not mentioned is the same in both of the ships.)
The navy one is :
1- Less mass (- 2000000) .
2- More structure HP (+3100) .
3- More drone capacity (+25) .
4- Less cargo (-30) .
5- More drone bandwidth (+25) .
6- More armor (+2200 ) .
7- More Shield HP (3500 ) .
8- More shield recharge rate (+890) .
9- More cap capacity (+400) .
10- More scan res (+20) .
11- More Gravimetric strength (+6) .
12- More speed (+10) .
13- More CPU (+30) .
14- More PG (+1000) .
15- More launcher hardpoing (+2) .
16- Less Turret harpoint (-4) .
17- More High slot (+1) .
18- More price (226 M ISK) .
Notes:
*Both Raven type meant to be shield.
*Normal raven meant for rate fire and the navy one is anti speed.
*I recommend removing the addition armor then add it into shield.
Here is the comparison of Scorpion and Scorpion navy issue.
The navy one is :
1- More structure HP (+2500) .
2- More Cargo (+125) .
3- Less Agile (-9) .
4- More Armor HP (+3000) .
5- More Shield HP (+4500) .
6- More Sig (+25) .
7- Less scan res (-35) .
8- More Gravimetric strength (+6) .
9- More speed (+7) .
10- More high slot (+2) .
11- More CPU (+30) .
12- More PG (+1500) .
13- More Launcher hardpoint (+2) .
14- More PRice (+227 M ISK) .
Notes:
*Both Normal and navy meant to be Shield.
*Normal one is for supporte use when the navy one is for Damage and ressist.
*My recommendation is to move the +3K into shield than armor.
Now doing comarison for the Tempest and Tempest navy issue.
As mention it is default .
The navy one is :
1- More Mass (+3800000)
2- More Structure HP (+2200)
3- More Drone capacity (+25)
4- More Volume for the ship (+36000)
5- More Cargo (+35)
6- More Agile (+1)
7- More Armor HP (+3800)
8- More Shield HP (+3400)
9- More shield Recharge rate (+890)
10- More Capacitor capacity (+100)
11- Less Sig (-10)
12- More Targeting range (+7.8 KM)
13- More Ladar strength (+4)
14- More Speed (+3)
15- More Low Slot (+1)
16- More CPU (+30)
17- More PG (+1500)
18- More Price like (173 M ISK)
Notes:
*Both being Made for armor.
*Both has same trait except the strandered one is more rate of fire.
*My recommendation is removing the +3400 + 890 and split it on armor and structure.
Now i compare between Typhoon and Typhoon Fleet Issue :
The navy one has:
1- More Mass (+2000000)
2- More Structure HP (+3000)
3- More drone capacity (+75)
4- Less Cargo (-30)
5- More Bandwith (+25)
6- More Armor (+3000)
7- More Shield Capacity (+3000)
8- More Shield Recharge (+890)
9- More Capacitor Capacity (+400)
10- Less Sig (-10)
11- More range for targeting (+3.9 KM)
12- More Ladar strength (+4)
13- More speed (+8)
14- More high slot (+1)
15- More CPU (+20)
16- More PG (+500)
17- More price (247 M ISK )
My notes is :
*Both meant to be Armor.
*Trait give Normal Typhoon missile bonuses but navy do for missile and turret.
My recommendation is to remove any addition shield and give it to armor and/or structure.