Nerf Ganking Megathread

i don’t care about your ganking , i still don’t understand why would anyone do something else than mining and project discovery , but i can’t be the one to stand in front of your happiness .

what i came here to ask:

should they buff ganking a bit ?
should they add said activities in the agency and pair them with the new fleet finder ? make then more accesible ?

If zkill is pulling his kills from the api, it’s also pulling his losses; you don’t get to select which bit zkill pulls when you submit your api key.

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you can choose to give no esi at all and just post manually only the kills …

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Or post automatically your kills and not your losses.

The thing is that those “explanation” as you say are just … your selected explanations. They are definitely not general . The only thing we can say, is that people can gank other people without any profit. Since the act of ganking is basically free when you have the resources(it only costs isk and time), they can do it without a second thought provided it goes in their “fun” budget and they have enough alts.

So, fact : you don’t need to have a specific value to be ganked.
Which debunks the myth : There are given ratio of EHP/isk that protect you from being ganked.
So, fact : there is nothing you can do to not be ganked, but be active and ready to leave. Anything else can reduce the probabilities to be ganked, but never make them reach zero. Which implies, there is nothing you can do to prevent be ganked at a gate.

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Kusion has upwards of 60 gank characters, He doesn’t give a hoot about killboard stats. He’s spoken about his motivation quite a few times and it isn’t because of a third-party record of kills and losses.

Indeed you can, it’s a bit impractical when you’re running tens of characters though; and zkill does show his losses.

There will always be exceptions to the rule of what you’ve painted here and depicted as myths .
I think you went a by far with generalizing them , they need more tuning.

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What? No. No, it is not free. You said it yourself; it costs me isk and time. It’s like saying a burrito is free if you use your debit card instead of your credit card.

Having an unprofitable EHP to isk ratio may not save you from gankers motivated by other reasons, but it will still dramatically reduces your chances of being ganked by those who are actively hunting for profitable gank targets. I mean, you can still be a victim of crime even if you’re broke. But that doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea to go flashing wads of cash around in high crime areas.

True, you will never reduce your probabilities to zero. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t implement proper risk management strategies. I mean, wearing a seat belt won’t guarantee I’ll survive a car crash. But, I still wear my seat belt because it has been proven to reduce injuries and fatalities.

Honestly, I think there is some pretty bad logic on display here. Now, I know you’re not stupid. And I’ve never seen you troll anyone before, so I doubt you’ve suddenly decided to start now. Thus, I can only assume that you are engaging in some motivated reasoning.

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That’s unrelated. I went with your myth debunks at the beginning, and debunked a few myths that you ignored.

Claiming that you can avoid being ganked by X or Y is just a myth. The main reason you were ganked, is because they could gank you. Assuming there is something to do in Eve to not be ganked is just wrong. There is no hard-coded limit to the gank, so what have worked for someone for say 10 years may as well not work anymore in the next week, without any reason besides “they can”.

There are a few things you can do to reduce your risk to 0.
Don’t log in.
Don’t undock from npc station.

Other than that, you can do a few things to reduce risk, not to zero, but close enough to not die in 3+ years.

  • Miners; max your tank ability. Don’t be afraid of implants to increase shield, armor and hull. It might save your ship.
    Train barges, use a procurer. Lower m3 per minute, but high tank. Skill shields to max. Fit to max your shielding. Rats won’t hurt, so make sure you have high resistance to all 4 types.
    Set contacts for everyone in known gank groups. Set contacts for anyone that goes criminal at all. Set contacts for anyone that has negative sec status.
    Place your local in a separate box than anywhere you might chat. Pay attention to traffic. Dscan, especially if local jumps in numbers.
    Orcas; max tank like procurer, but also fit mwd. You will be in warp within 10 seconds, aligned or not. Only use t2 drones, and don’t be afraid to lose them. Your ship is more important than a couple million in drones. Don’t be afraid to have a cloak take up a high slot. Gankers are about speeding to belts looking for you. There’s a low chance they’re going to fly the entire belt looking to decloak you.
  • Choose low traffic areas. If there are no player structures to compress, people don’t like mining there. That’s good for you. If all you do is sell your ore, then it’s ok to build up then sell via contract to any of the highsec buyback corps. You’ll take a loss, because they only pay 90% jita, but you’re safer. Let them take the risk hauling it.
    Alternatively; choose to haul during timezone changeover. You’ll notice throughout the day when the number of people logged in drops significantly. Use that time to haul to the closest compression station, and haul it back to your home base. You’ll make more selling compressed ore, even to the highsec buyback corps.
  • Try to mine more than 14 au from system gates. If they don’t see you out mining, they typically won’t work too hard finding you.
  • Don’t ever pay for a “mining permit”. Once you cave in to ridiculousness, you’ll be known as too weak or too stupid to survive. Don’t whine in local or on the forums. They want your angst. Blueball them any way you can.
    Similar to how you deal with a bear attack; you don’t have to be smarter than the ganker, you have to be smarter than miners around you.
    Faster is interchangeable with smarter
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I don’t think Shipwreck Jones was claiming you can completely avoid getting ganked by following those tips, merely that it reduces the chance to get ganked.

People could still gank you for practice or lack of better targets, but they won’t gank you for profit if you’re smart.

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Indeed, he was only giving some explanation as to why some people may get ganked. The problem is that it’s not general, and people can suicide kill you … just because they want. It’s a sand box, you don’t need to follow the rules that other people have decided they will, and there is no mechanism in the game to prevent suicide killing people.

The core of that argument is : in Eve, you can die anywhere, without a reason other than “because they can”. The most important lie, is that “high security” has any security in it : there is actually no security outside of a NPC station.

People like to believe that doing X or Y will make them suicide kill immune. It only works as long as it works, just like fitting for <2s only works as long as they are not willing to field double ultralockers on the gate.

Indeed. But it’s a sandbox, if you can generate profit otherwise then you can also spend that profit doing things for your own pleasure rather than for profit. Many people are pushing this “for profit” idea on other and are therefore making a fundamental mistake : In Eve you can kill for your own reasons, whichever they are.

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True.

If you truly want to gank something, you can. Bring enough ships, pilots and dedication and literally anything players put into space can be ganked.

Yes, this is legit. We ganked an Astrahus.
To see if we could.

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Get out! GET OUT! OUTOUTOUTTA HERE!

:angry:

:roll_eyes:

In a game of cat and mouse, there is no shame in being a better mouse.

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I’ve never run metrics on my KB, but a significant portion of my kills (and losses) occurred in either LowSec, WHs, or NullSec. I don’t enjoy NullSec as much mostly because of how far away it is. :woman_shrugging:

Are you saying CCP Rise was “just joking” at FanFest?

I mean sometimes. I might get a loss, but that loss is 15m at most. If I get on a juicy 3b Paladin mail, that’s always nice.

You can just never undock, and do station trading.

I see what you did there (not sure if intentional though but funny nevertheless). :slight_smile:

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Okay, I think I see what you’re getting at, and I feel like some of your arguments are against views I don’t actually hold. Now, I was initially going to try to clarify my position, but I’m not entirely sure that I want to. I mean, I’m of the opinion that the fewer the people that follow my advice, the more soft targets there will be for me to kill. So, I should probably stop trying to win this debate.

So, I agree to disagree. Also, I’m sorry for being less than tactful with my earlier response.

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Let the dummy dumdums die.