My tinfoil hat might be thick and lead-lined but I can’t help but notice our American Outlaw psychological warfare alt friend has not posted of late and Dracvlad has returned from hiatus.
Just messing with ya Drac.
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JJ is not me, let me be clear on that.
I know. Welcome back though.
I was playing Starship Trooper Terran Command. I am thinking to stop with Eve soon and just buy cheap back catalogue games with the money instead. And I won’t play with a single account or an alpha account. So might be disappearing soon. I am just having a spurt of activity/playing to see if I can justify continuing to sub.
It is, but as I beheld last night…Aiko’s crew managed to gank a 200m ISK Mackinaw with just 4 Catalysts in 0.9 security space. The Mackinaw had zero added tanking…in fact 3 mid slots and two rig slots totally empty. Aiko tells me a Mackinaw can be got to over 100K EHP…and no way would 4 Cats in 0.9 be able to beat that. When I had a Procurer I felt reasonably safe in 0.8 and 0.9 space even with a lesser 70K EHP.
And…the above was not a noob. He’d been in Eve 796 days !
What kind of a wally goes out in a 200m ISK ship and can’t be bothered spending a mere few million on shield extenders ?
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These wallies; ORE strip miners with zero tank. Sadly the loot fairy said “no”.
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You should not believe anything that Aiko(s) says in terms of tank on Exhumers. I would advise you to ask for the Mac fit that gets a 100k EHP tank.
Why leave Eve ? Personally I think AG is a lost cause…especially when one considers examples like the Mackinaw I mentioned above. It’s one of the reasons I never really ‘got into’ AG…I could not be bothered defending people who make no effort to defend themselves.
But your skills would surely be valuable elsewhere in the game.
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AG was a lost cause as group play as soon as they imposed that RR nerf. Now we cannot rep people who shoot back on criminals, one huge nerf to AG play. At one point there were many dedicated AG players, but now hardly any.
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You misunderstood what I meant. So again. A five or six ships lands on top of you to gank you. You are alone. Why the hell should you be able to win against that? How would that be balanced? It is absolutely nonsense.
And yet it can be done already. I don’t even know what this “drivel” word is, but there is a way how you can make them fail and you don’t need alts for that. Again I won’t tell you what is it, but it exists. The fact that you still haven’t figured it out clearly shows that you never tried to gank yourself. If you did, you would start seeing things with different perspective and you would actually see some really clever miners doing something you still after all those years you play consider impossible. But enough on this matter and I won’t fall to your attempts to make me disclosure it in order to proof you wrong.
You already said that you understand that EVE is a game of alts and multiboxing and you don’t mind that. (And even if you mind that, well that is your problem because it is not against rules and it is actually encouraged by game developers.) But it doesn’t even matter whether that gank fleet that arrived consists of 5 actual players or 1 + 4 multibox accounts. The fact is that it is 5 against 1. And you want to have a “I win” button because you find this unfair somehow. But that is entirely on you. You have also an option to bring friends or multiboxing alts yourself.
And a lot of miners does that. But do they field PvP antiganking ships? No they do not. And then they complain that it is unfair. Don’t you see a hypocrisy there? Really not?
So again, I will explain you the major reason why almost nobody is fielding those PvP ships to protect their mining ops in highsec.
- Ganking is rare. The chance you will be ganked is really low and that chance can be mitigated to 0.000001% if you stop being greedy and use procurer/skiff or stay in an actualy high security. After the EHP buff, you would have to piss someone really hard for them to bring 4 nados for you there (and I am not sure 4 would be even enough now, likely not). Or just move farther from Jita than 6 jumps. Sooo. That PvP ship will spend hours and days there with entirely no value.
- Miners in highec are actually not playing the game, they mine afk or at least semi-afk most of the time. And if they are afk, then that PvP alt is useless right?
- It is much more profitable to just field another mining alt. That way you still earn more ISK even if you lose one ship to gankers than if you used that PvP alt and avoided losing that ship in first place.
In 2018 I was able when my friend still played with me to gank multiple miners in one go as we both multiboxed 4 accounts. Usually two, sometimes we managed to kill even 4 hulks at one go (when they all were completely untanked in 0.5 where CONCORD was spawned already). But after barges EHP buff, I don’t see this happening anymore looking at killboard. It is always just 1 ship these days so if you do actually multibox (as CCP wants you to) and lose that 1 ship, you won’t even flinch about that. (Well you do because you can’t accept ganking itself but thats another story.)
It really is simple. They have more players, why should you be able to win and in mining ship at that? You shouldn’t win even in PvP ship[ against that many if you are solo. And being solo is no argument. I mean like, the hypocrisy of yours is really extreme on this matter - when I was complaining I have to multibox multiple accounts to gank miners you saw it as my incompentence of finding an actual friends to do it with me. And I agree with you on that one. But somehow, you turn 180° when the same argument is used against you…
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Even after they nerfed the Procurer last year I was still able to get 65K EHP. But you gotta admit almost anything is better than this fitting below when it comes to defending against gankers…
That third mining laser upgrade is a waste of space and should be a Damage Control II module. I’d fit two Large shield extenders and a multispectrum shield enhancer in the 3 empty mid slots, and bulkheads in the rigs. I dunno if that would get to 100K EHP…I had around 80K with similar on the old pre-nerfed Proc.
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I’ve actually scored two kill rights, when mining, against gankers who were not up to the task. So not only have I never been ganked while mining…the ‘balance’ everyone is talking about is actually on my side and I got to watch Concord zap two ships while I waltzed off unharmed.
Miner 2 Gankers 0
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Why is that nonsense, you chose to attack in hisec security space with a rapid response police force. the whole point that you cannot sit there for a period killing it. What you are saying is nonsense.
Drivel again, I know of ways but I won’t tell you, well the last person who made statements like that then talked about pulling CONCORD…
It is not so much that I mind, but that most new players start with a single account and with the price increase and increased plex cost more people will have to play with a single account, creating more balance issues and removing counter play options. Which you freely admit are multiple account related.
I have seen a lot of people setup Loki’s and E-war ships to defend their ships. Used to happen a lot more, but when it became a n+1 situation all the time it was obvious it was not worth doing. So most people try to gouge as much ore before the gankers get active…
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Why would you use Tornados on a skiff, you mean Talos don’t you. And it is actually 13 Catalyst to kill a properly tanked skiff in an 0.5 system at this point.
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That is bullshite, the rocks are so small you are forever re-cycling your mining lasars.
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Not with the new sub and plex prices and the small rock sizes…
Before the tank got increased recently you needed 1/2 Catalysts in a 0.5 system to blow up a Hulk, stupidly low.
It is simple you are shooting someone in protected space, it should be hard.
I can jump in a Vargur and murder that many people easily. I was training Marauder 5 for this as I want to have a go at it…, so you are wrong about being able to take out five people in a single ship.
Getting a group of players to work together it part of what made Eve a good game and restricted many actions because of waiting around, that people in the end used massed alts shows that they were not really getting the social aspects of Eve.
100k EHP is not possible on a Mackinaw. As I said you should never quote Aiko(s) on things like this.
I can get to 81,395 EHP with one mining lasar upgrade and 2x T2 Modulated Strip miners so it is actually useful.
The 100K may be questionable, but even 81K is not gonna be destroyed by 4 Catalysts in 0.9 space. In fact that 19K of damage that the Catalysts did do is probably at about the limit of what 4 of them can do in 7 seconds or so.
Is Aiko(s) bench-marking gankability in 0.9 systems? Seems to be a rather odd benchmark. The key systems are 0.5-0.7.
Ok so, before when we needed 1,5 ship(player/alt) to kill miner it was too easy and thus unfair. CCP catered towards you and buffed barges. So we, gankers, adapted and brought more ships, that many that we needed to make sure we get the kill, which is like 5 now? To you that is still not hard enough. Hmm.
Do you realize that there are only two possible outcomes?
If ever CCP caters towards carebears even more and make mining ships even more sturdy gankers will just bring even more ships than they are bringing now to ensure the kill.
Or the buff to barges will be so huge that nobody will be willing to gank them anymore.
There is nothing in between these two possible outcomes. Either the buff to “victims” will be meaninglss as gankers adapts (and then you will still find it not hard enough and unfair) or the buff to victims kills ganking completely.
You are just not being honest from the very beginning. What you really want is to remove ganking entirely from the game, nothing else. Everything you write on the subject of ganking is screaming with this even the statements where you claim that you have no problem ganking, but…
Well mining ships are shield based and against shield based ships like golem they use Tornados. I never tried this myself, so I don’t know what is better and there is also an availability in question.
Okay, looks like Aiko is ganking even in 0.9, 10 catalysts seems to do the trick. Still that is pretty rare to see so my statement isn’t completely incorrect. You are more safe in higher security. But it seems I largely underestimated it and the number I used is flat out wrong.
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Having other moves is counterplay I agree. Running away isn’t, which is walking away from the board.
It is a pure opinion deal and I know that.
JJ
Walking away from the board equates to logging out.
Choosing a more sensible path or a better strategy involving evasion is counter play.
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I do agree if you are a solo or even small gang you don’t engage fights you can’t win. Doesn’t always work out like that, but same line. But a miner isn’t winning any fight unless you are in a corvett and its a skiff with combat drones. I know extremes there are some bait miners in null, but they are not looking for a group they are looking for the solo.
Again agree with both because in its context it is correct. It is assuming nukes on both sides, which isn’t the case here.
Today that is true, and would like to add anti-gank gameplay to the list of wishes. I don’t feel running is exciting game play for the ganker, unless I am correct on baby seal clubing characters.
JJ