I dont know why new players wouldnt want to play as security too vOv
I dunno, I just think having a safe zone without threat thats an active part of the game isnt an interesting game.
I guess RPGs are destined to go the way of text adventures. Which is a real pity
I dont understand why they wouldnt be with the targets in the first place.
How would you know? You don’t even play EvE.
Hi Lucas.
How can a ganker ‘target’ a new player?
I may check the Employment History, but that will only give me the age of the character, and not the length of time the player has been playing EVE.
No? The security is there to protect the miners or whatever? Why would you think otherwise?
I dont but I would if there was no ganking.
The funny thing is travelling through High Sec is a pretty much essential part of hauling.
Now you are just being obtuse for an argument.
You and a lot of others dont want an immersive RPG but a lot of others do.
Ive never heard an explanation of the benefits of a threatless grind are, but it certainly is lazier to code so given the lack of effort these days put into the game by CCP, Im totally not going to be surprised when your desire becomes true.
I can only hope for an a game with EvE’s previous freedom to someday exist.
For your education and understanding of “ganking” here’s some accurate, unbiased data: https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#{“buttons”:[“togglefilters”,“recent”,“rolling”,“label-highsec”,“label-ganked”,“sort-date”,“sort-desc”,“page1”,“victimsonly”]}
Two observations from this: 1) the “victims” can hardly be labeled as “new”, seeing what they are flying
2) if these players used their contact lists correctly many of those losses would be averted
The cops could provide RR assistance and such, and their efficiency would taper off with time as they’re taken out. A gank essentially wouldn’t be a 20-second thing, but a 5-10 minute thing. The goal would be to provide incentives for players to provide armed escorts to valuable industrial targets, giving a massive boost to mercenary/AG work. And if the gankers kill a valuable, unarmed target that’s not being escorted in a secluded area, then they deserve to not take any losses, because why should ignorance and lack of preparation be rewarded/avenged?
Also, the “not going after combat targets” is a pretty ridiculous claim considering how many combat PvE boats are getting destroyed.
No it wouldn’t. Low-sec doesn’t have NPC forces that spawn and protect you.
Citation required.
They are included in the “or whatever”?
Why wouldnt you have one? Why would you deny someone that unless they chose to be a criminal?
Right, and locking people into “grind or nothing” isnt helping that.
Why are the zones that are already earmarked as such not enough? Its not my fault CCP doesnt set green only in the starter systems. Perhaps they should?
Hence starter zones, but “whats going on” should, in an immersive RPG as well as RL, include the reality that sometimes you lose.
So again, safe starting systems but actual freedom outside if that. I dont see what the objection is.
Id appreciate you not putting words in my mout or hyperbolating my postion. You didnt appreciate it happening to you in that other thread.
Nullsec needs burned, but thats not what we are talking about here.
We are arguing about the fact I believe there should be more active AG roles in the game and ganking should have direct player driven counters, so Im sorry but you are not correct about my opinion on ganking.
NB if every argument is going to boil down to “I hate gankers because they are poor examples of the human condition” and variations of this, we arent going to get anywhere at all
Whatifism.
There absolutely are.
What are you even talking about now? Have you even checked the kill board before deciding to make claims? There are dozens of high-end combat ships dying to ganks every day. Not to “baiting,” but to ganks specifically.
LOL
So having a massive tank, high damage, and oftentimes a higher degree of cap stability (if cap is even necessary for the build) is not being “fitted to engage in PvP”?
It seems like you’re taking the use of warp disruption modules, which are only useful for preventing enemies from escaping and are in no way necessary to actually win fights, as a de facto requirement for a “PvP build.” This is highly indicative of a lack of experience with PvP in general, and small-scale combat in particular. I.e. your opinions are worth little since you have no expertise in the field of which to speak. Or intellectual dishonesty. Take your pick I guess.
Why would it be random people? If anyone is being “disingenious” (actually obtuse) its you. You literally constructed the very worst scenario out of what I said and assumed it to be the case.
That is what you are championing for high sec though, unless youd like to make your case clearer, which Im all ears to.
Not if it was a “grind or nothing” HS it wouldnt
Still irrelevent to the practicalities of defending against a HS gank.
Its your go to when you want to make your point emotive to get a rise out of gankers. Whether its true or not, it isnt helpful.
You’re hilarious. I solo-ran wormhole sites and got attacked often, and I did just fine.
We can fight if you want. I’ll use a PvE fit, and you’ll use a PvP fit. See how that turns out.
CONCORD-assigned fighter wing.
Isnt everything? But yes, I actually agree, hence providing security.
Why would there be in the most settled space? (Ofc you CAN argue that about ganking too)
Wait, what? Where did I say anyone should be punished for persuing capitalist goals in this game? You just made that up.
Yes it would. What else is there?
This is not even blatantly true LOL.
Most organized gank groups gank for profit, with some lulganks thrown in.
Most common gank targets are dummies doing the abyss, and SoE hubs.
The only safe place in EVE is docked in an NPC station.
This leads me to believe you’ve never entered into a WH.
And so you get to say whatever is on your agenda. We might as well kell this thread.
What a typical ridiculucas thing to say.
It sure doesn’t provide any data for your insinuations.
CCP’s safe area of space: starter systems and related ones where ganking is a bannable offence.
That’s because nullsec groups, as you very well know, get themselves organized. There’s plenty of nullsec groups who take in newbies and teach them the ropes. Re-introduce those educated newbies back into hisec and they won’t be victims to ganking.
If people insist on pretending that an individual should be as “safe” as an organized group, especially in hisec, that is their problematic playstyle and false expectation, and not a reason to change the design. The ‘nowhere is safe’ aspect of EvE is a big part of its relative success and identity.
The real solution to the alleged “ganking problem”, where it concerns newbies at least, is one of education in the ways of EvE. Any new suggestion to improve on that point, apart from the eternal “join a good corp”, would be quite interesting.
This: https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing It even includes all the systems from the first Arc. And CONCORD of course. You mistake relative safety for absolute safety. Anyway, using the old “think of the newbies” argument leads to nowhere. We’re playing a competitive game here, not a knitting circle.
Lucas, all activities in EVE evince this tendency. It is not to be expected that newer players receive a bye in Market Trading, PI, Mining, PvP - you name it.
As with many of us, in various gaming contexts, the progression goes -
Lose 
Learn Grow.
Lucas do you not like DJ Accy or something? 
Im just glad youre not in charge of devising these things. Why would it have to be generic?
Right, so reduce the threshold, dont remove the risk.
On top of what? They dont need to do anything otherwise.
Like what? If its that easy, tell me what they are.
Why wouldnt these be removed to protect the new players too? Are these things not only done by “incels” too?
For commonly ganked and gank ships, it is a reasonable data source.
Comparing some common ships types on zkillboard to the MER data since January 2020:
The “ganked” tag on zkillboard was never meant to flag all ganks though. It was specifically introduced for the last Burn Jita, to provide a bit of a tracking of that event and has just stayed, however if you cut the data yourself, it’s relatively easy to identify significantly more ganks, including a lot of solo ones.
Ventures through have only around 90% of losses there, and while a lot of the missing data will include things like cynos, etc., if you specifically want to look at new player ganking, there’d be a >10% error margin there to account for (but certainly for other ships, it’s pretty straight forward to compare the victim age at time of death and then just argue ad infinitum on what a new player is or isn’t.
Yes on one hand, Insee but we are talking theoretically anyway, so theoretically Im going with a Dev team with imagination.
I said reduce, not remove. Make the penalty less. Like better Insurance, like in Elite, as a top of head example.
I still dont see why that means they should be less protected than someone that does nothing to protect themselves. Innocent ignorance is the same coin either side.
Why go to all that bother…when one could simply remove the inability to wardec without having a structure.