Are you saying carebears demand CCP nerf their opponents in order to buff their own gameplay?
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Constantly, yes.
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Wait, if someone shoots an asteroid these days, what happens?
Do you still get executed for shooting wrecks?
Technically yes, but since the HP buff to wrecks I think most people gave up trying to use that. So practically, not often anymore, but it’s still a mechanic, likely to be an accidental Concordekken these days.
Yeah I was meaning that.
Muh immersion thinks thats a teansy bit more of an important oversight.
That could work but had you thought about if it was set to something such as when New Pilots reach a certain skill point level or something along those lines?
A Brand New Pilot while in Highsec is ungankable unless duel/wardec/suspect/criminal or Killright/Bounty
But the moment that Pilot then enters Abyssal sites or WHS or LowSec/NullSec they are now open to be attacked like a normal pilot while in HIghsec even though their pilot training is low (1Million sp value) or less.
That is just a thought if it has no future discussion I understand,
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Bro I know right? How crazy is that LOL.
Imagine a grown man saying that, and then now trying to cover his tracks cause he’s embarrassed LOL.
But on the real, it is pretty freaking sad.
LOL. Sure buddy 
ROFL. Cept you deleted all of them probably Bro, you got for real issues. Like for real, for real.
Again, you got all of my pity bro.
Yep. Blows my mind bro. I knew that’s why he was saying that too LOL.
indeed and ganking helps the newbros. That stinging loss of a ship, impressing the lesson that no space is safe but what we make.
It is what they need to learn to EVE.
The miner is in charge of their own story as well. Maybe they should have been mining aligned, paying attention to local, so they could instawarp to a safe and then taunt the gankers in local?
You’ll find most people get ganked because they aren’t actually at the computer LOL.
Oh? Like how when you lied about ships being for sale? ROFL.
Or how you like a player driven universe but can’t be bothered to fight gankers so you cry to daddy CCP?
ROFL.
The times where I’ve been labeled an Aiko alt
Truth is, I’d probably actually gank if I wanted to. But only got the one account so wouldn’t be very profitable LOL.
Erm no, he didn’t. You do all the time tho
What is defined as a “new” player? And a ship that new players fly?
You realize how absolutely terribad this idea is right? ROFL. The potential for abuse is insane LOL.
And no, I won’t elaborate. If you can’t think of it, you’re terribad at EVE
Or impossible really. Also to impossible to prove people are actually newbs LOL.
Yep. I got no problems with the rookie systems being protected. Once they swim out to deeper waters tho, fair game
Although I do feel you should be able to suspect bait in all systems
He didn’t actually. Bro the gas lighting is just second nature to you huh? I pity you bro.
Course it does. Just stop sucking at EVE Spend two minutes looking at F10 before moving LOL.
Sure you can. Just learn how to play
You can. Learn how to EVE LOL.
There is tons of ways AGing can be effective. Most AGers are just terribad at PvP and meta gaming
Yep. Remember tho, Lucas say veterans can easily avoid ganking. So the question is, if he says there is no counterplay, how are these veterans avoiding ganking? LOL.
Wut. Why lie bro?
Here’s the thing mate. They know it all works. But if they admit it, it destroys their argument.
What it comes down to, is the people being ganked at bad at the game, that’s why their dying
ROFL. Those are all countermeasures you can take.
Oh? See my handy guide
Just gank the gankers bro. Learn how to EVE
Still waiting on this evidence LOL.
He’s switched to using this guy cause he absolutely waffle stomped his last char with embarrassment.
And the last account he only re-subbed because Aiko shamed him into doing it
Bingo! We have a winner!
But they hate when you remind them of this
That would involve them actually playing the game instead of crying to daddy CCP
Then post with your main bruv I am
Of course it is. Just get more friends
I know, it means you actually gotta be social huh? But from the way you and Lucas talk, there must be thousands of peeps out there willing to burn the ganker scourge right?
Surely you can overcome them?
Wut, yea it is. Just farm up sec so you don’t take the hit. It isn’t hard LOL.
Yea, cause you suck at EVE bro And yes, hunting competent players is hard LOL.
LOL where bro? Where are these supposed hordes of T1 frigs being killed LOL.
This. So all they do is cry to daddy CCP instead of actually playing the game, securing allies and attempting to do something.
Yep. But then he’d actually have to play the game to know what was happening LOL.
Oh? So drop them then
You can. Just stop sucking at EVE
Of course they should. These structures are used and owned by the gankers LOL.
Huh. So you’re just a coward. Got it
Wut. Do you live in reality? LOL. In Cal space alone, all the criminals gotta do is pay off some corps. Hell, you got criminals in every belt in high sec LOL.
Nope, you’re just terribad at EVE
Sounds like someone should read my guide
Stopping ganking is actually very simple. But it involves yennoe, playing the game
So instead of taking action in game, you cry to daddy CCP. LOL, pathetic.
Yeppers.
Its very possible to do it even solo at times. I broke x-100’s gate camp solo all the time in a mega
You are crying bro. And she is better. Hence why she’s making you cry
Of course you can. If you knew how to play the game
That’s why you don’t AG with a loki silly AG fits are specialized as well. I’ve made several that work fantastic.
You see, most people suck at PvP, esp AG. Just as ganking fits are highly suited to their role, so must AG fits. You don’t fit it as a standard fit, depending on how you’re trying to AG.
You’ve been crying all over this forum to the contrary LOL.
Of course they work. Which is why the majority don’t get ganked LOL.
I doubt that very much LOL.
A ship being expensive shouldn’t mean its unkillable
Cept he just rolfcoptered you into the ground. So there’s that
What’s funny is now you’re attempting to use lore to justify things, but you don’t even know enough lore about the EVE universe to swim LOL.
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I agree with Gix.
Newbros benefit from being ganked.
If you oppose ganking new players, you are actually hurting them.
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A few people lost marauders at Christmas time trying to spitefully blow up the wrecks in a site because they didn’t know the mechanic.
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While that would kinda work for new players, it’d be basically impossible to indicate that to other players, so it’d be really difficult to tell who was a valid target and who wasn’t.
No, I can’t fully agree here. I know 100% that under the right conditions a fleet can be on grid even while fully focused on the gameplay. Then we are talking about player skill. Something that you are bringing up with that reply. It is still a new pilot we are discussing, not a 1 month + pilot.
We really need to grow as a Community. How are we able to achieve such when we are not allowing a Brand New pilot to explore a very small part of new Eden without the concern of becoming a part of someone elses story until that brand new pilot is ready to either decide when they wish or the game decides based on their actions and or skill training level.
When I revisit the Fanfest, the above does come to mind as a solution. Together we could turn something like such into a suggestion.
This is the part that is an unknown, particularly to the extent of how many benefit from the engagement vs how many leave.
For the several years now, across several presentations and data analysis pieces, CCP have identified a correlation between dying and still playing the game.
People have rightly pointed out that dying isn’t the cause of staying, however there is something about dying as a new player that links to some people staying with the game (for a whole host of underlying causes). Clearly others also leave as a result of those interactions.
Which is the greater number is an unknown.
While CCP have tried multiple iterations on the NPE, UI changes, simplifying mechanics, etc. over the last few years, they don’t seem to have made a dent in the churn. Still 90+% of new players are gone within the first 7 days.
Now it seems CCP are on the wagon of - killing new players in new player ships without them understanding and not having an easy path back into the ship again - is bad.
What I hope doesn’t happen is that they go and implement changes against their new idea of griefing and then not only do they continue to lose the players that they currently lose, but then they also lose the players that currently stay and who then don’t get to experience the situation that correlates with them staying.
Unfortunately, I don’t have a lot of confidence in CCP devs currently.
I think they will go into any changes as blindly as they have made changes over the last couple of years on the idea that it will help, and all it will do is continue to hurt the game and retention.
It’s not an unknown.
Losing a Venture is a trivial loss. This loss informs players of risk and teaches them to be alert. If they are not ganked, they will not learn until they lose something else.
You do not need mathematical proof to show that this is the case. It is basic common sense, in any game, people learn from mistakes. If you protect them from those mistakes, then you prevent learning.
In order to learn, new players must experience loss.
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I am not really sure what you want to do. The following is not meant to be critical of you, but of a situation as I see it exists today. I know you’re not responsible so if it sounds accusatory, it’s not meant to sound that way.
When I was new to the game, I just accepted that people would shoot me if they wanted to. It didn’t stop me from getting mad about it or thinking that they shouldn’t do that but I didn’t quit because of it.
Everyone gets an unlimited supply of ships. It’s not invincible, but it also costs nothing. You can lose it once, twice, or a thousand times and not be out anything of value. If you want to raise the floor that a capsuleer can be dropped to, I think buffing the corvette would be a better choice than tampering with rules or safety settings.
CCP’s griefing statement says players have no reason to expect to be attacked. This can be resolved with a big warning box before they start playing that tells them to expect to be attacked. Now they have a reason to expect it and therefore can’t be griefed by this description, not that I think shooting a new player is griefing to begin with.
From day one a player should be prepared to lose their ship. I don’t want people having to research a target to make some vague determination of whether or not they’re actually new because I see it as an excessive burden to people who do start conflicts (and therefore create content) in highsec.
Highsec, in its current form, is reasonably accessible. Anyone who shoots you dies. You get 40% of your hull’s value back from free insurance, and if you’re truly destitute you get a corvette to fly and make some isk in so you can recover. Unless a new player is relentlessly hunted they should be fine. If hunted relentlessly, that is considered harassment and a reportable offense. I don’t think most hunters want to spend the effort to break the rules, though, and just shoot whatever target presents itself as the easiest at any given moment.
I used to find the occasional new player who died carrying all their stuff, and they would lament their position. I’d give them a cheap ship and fly support in a few missions to give them some ISK for something better. I gave very little and made them earn the bulk of it. There are lots of carebears and white knights out there. If we want to be a good ‘community’ then we should be giving those who lose their ships some of our time and attention to fix that issue as opposed to rules and regulations that allow us to ignore these people because they no longer have a need for a community to support them.
I got bored. Nobody really stirs up trouble in Highsec, and if anyone does nobody wants to do much to stop it. People are groomed to think they are weak and powerless, and locked into a victim mentality they do nothing but complain or quit when confronted with a setback.
Unless the community wants to switch it up and start empowering new players with knowledge of what they can do, how they can fight back, how they can recover, and how they can protect themselves they will always be victims who don’t know they can be anything else because everyone insists they’re weak and can only survive by CCP fiat. This situation irks me, but I never had nor wanted the influence to combat the all corporations training newbies into the victim mentality.
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I agree. Math isn’t the right tool for all situations and even hurts in some cases. It’s easy to focus too much on data (as someone who generally loves collecting and analysing data), but sometimes it’s better to take a bigger picture view.
In the case of “newbros benefit from being ganked” math can’t show that; and the idea of benefit is such an individual and varied thing that even generalising it is difficult.
What we can do, and where the math can help, is see what the effect on retention is from a change made to the game (which seems to be what CCP have been trying to impact since 2013).
So far, changes to help newbros don’t seem to have had much overall effect at all and other changes have done little more than result in vets also leaving the game.
EDIT: Also - bring back the jukebox, but instead of playing mp3 files, let me link it to my Spotify, iTunes or Google Music, etc. account.
The game would have to show a icon or even a blue circle around the ship once target locked. Had you seen the blue circle that is around the Autothysian Lancer?
This is all fine but what I am leaning towards is that there is no value that can be applied to a brand new pilots story where they want to create in their own version of the new eden sandbox.
We had Fanfest and it seems there is now some focus on highsec pvp or ganking what we call it.
Without even thinking of the term being grief as the Brand New Capsuleer knows that it is a pvp game but this is where the new Pilot interaction takes hold and perhaps this is the direction in which I would like to see it move towards. How about 1 week even a brand pilot can not be attacked unless they decide via their own actions or skill training reached ie pumped injected or store purchased.
Again there no price in isk or free ships that can repair that pilots story.
This is not about me or what I do with new pilots this is about what was shown at fanfest and my view on a possible solution that still currently is in no order to become a suggestion.
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Simple, everyone outside of CCP designated rookie systems are valid targets
I was able, at 13 years old, to know that standing outside AFK of the guard zone in UO was gonna get me straight murdered.
If a new pilot cannot spend 5 mins to Google a near 20 year old game and how to stay alive, they deserve all the death that is coming.
Nope. Opposite. Because then you are crippling them for their EVE lives and turning them into more players that cry to daddy CCP to save them when they should be saving themselves.
You think you’re helping the newbs. You aren’t. The quicker they learn the thing separating them from the clone bay is their own wits and skill, the better off they are.
Also here’s the thing boyos. Sometimes, even with all your wit and skill and fittings and luck, sometimes its your turn to die. There’s no evading it. You zigged. You zagged. Your number came up.
Death is EVE. The quicker they learn it, the better.
In reality as part of the NPE, they should clearly outline how you can get ganked, suspect baiting and all of that LOL.
1000 percent.
Hell when I came back I lost my fav ish to the damn trigs. Did I cry on the forums to CCP to reimburse my loss? No, I learned what trigs were and fixed my standings accordingly.
That ish had been with me thru low and high and null. It contained treasured kills. Had saved comrades. Had murdered ships and pods and picked up many corpses. All to burn in space to damn triangle aliens.
That ish meant much more than a newb’s venture LOL.
I’d actually be for this.
1000 percent.
Chip truth. All the big newb corps want is just for them to keep farming 4s to pad the taxes.
If I did have multiple accounts, I think I would murder SiCo in Oisio. It pains me that they’ve taken over there.
Nope. They don’t get to make their own sandbox. They learn to live in the same sandbox as everyone else LOL.
Nope. They make their own story. Sometimes that story leads you to the clone bay.
That’s EVE.
I am trying to look at a much larger picture for example;
Let’s try and change the learning curve for New Eden.
As am I.
And part of the curve is dealing with loss and getting murdered.
Protecting them artificially from that will cripple them.
You’re just training professional victims at this point.