New EHP Balance of the Mining Ships and Outcome

True. I find the people who are crying about ganking have little to no PvP experience. It is hard hunting down attentive players. Inattentive players well, its just fun to blap them :smiley:

The “there is absolutely no defense against ganking” people are all obviously ignorant of even basic stuff.


It’s exactly what Xeux said - the have no idea of the work and effort it takes to do it, and they just assume that it’s just random guys killing defenseless people. Ganking is one of the hardest things to do effectively, and the folks who do it the most are so good they make it look simple.

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Cough cough @Aaaarrgg cough.

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This is true. People also don’t know how to use information to defend themselves either. When I had to hump it back 22 jumps from null in a venture, I had to escape a whole WH chain as I was being actively hunted. It took all of the skills I had acquired to get out alive and I had no weapons.

But according to some peeps, I should have just died cause somehow PvPers have a magical I win button.

Which is actually no different to before the changes. The whole idea that Procs have received some massive ‘buff’ is simply not true.

All the changes have done as far as EHP is concerned is to force a move away from shield tank to hull tank, as many were previously using the 4 mid slots for shield enhancers, but the net effect on EHP is practically unchanged. If anything, it has involved additional cost to Proc owners and it now costs a few million ISK more to get the same EHP. So in fact gankers are ganking a more expensive ship.

With my own Proc, I had it at 66K EHP before the changes, and it is 69K EHP after. But…that new EHP is more unevenly spread out among the 4 different attack methods.

Nobody has ever said there was no defense against ganking. What has actually been said is that there is no such thing as being un-gankable. There is no 100% certain means of never getting ganked. Oh…sure you get those people who claim they’ve been in Eve a billion years and never got ganked, but they are primarily not miners. The simple truth is that if gankers want to gank a specific miner it really isn’t that hard for them.

so its an EHP buff. Are you mining more?

I claim nonsense on that. Probably the best people to know how easy it is to gank miners are miners themselves…who often mentally go through all the different methods gankers might use against them. And the realisation comes that it really would not be that hard at all.

The reason for this is the difference between opportunistic attack, which does require more effort, and aimed attack, where gankers say ‘lets go for miner xyz in this system’.

Just how much effort does it require for a scout to mark out the asteroid a miner is mining ? Most miners will return to the same asteroid if it is unfinished…it saves a lot of time. However hard a miner tries to be unpredictable…there will always be predictable elements that are part of maximising the ISK income.

Gankers love to rattle on about ’ if only you used d-scan and Local’…as if fleeing was simple. It isn’t. The miner has no idea where to flee to. All d-scan tells you is whether the 10 people who just entered the system are within 14.3 AU. Beyond that, you have no idea where they are…and the ganker scout knows where you are. In the time it takes for a Proc to align and warp, etc, the gankers could already be at the station you are fleeing to. So the whole idea of ’ see people in Local and flee somewhere’ is just nonsense.

Even a ‘safe’ spot can be scanned down. What is conceivably ‘hard’ about all this ? The average miner is a sitting duck who, by the very nature of the job, has to have some level of predictability. ‘Good’ gankers would simply make use of that and have an easy task.

I would not say it is an EHP buff…as I was not at maximum possible EHP before the changes as I did not want the extra cost. So effectively I have now been ‘forced’ to take the extra cost. Indeed, not only the cost of new rigs…but the old ones just get destroyed. So most Proc owners have had to take a loss of 25m ISK or so…just to stand still. They’ve effectively had half a ship ‘ganked’ by the changes.

And no, I have not mined at all in my Proc since the changes, as I’ve been setting up another character who now has the skills queue. But Cilla will be back mining soon.

As a proc owner i just removed two mid modules that wouldnt fit and didnt change anything else. Its less EHP but way more EHP than i need. And i mine more in it.

I dont see a problem.

And maybe dont exaggerate so much. In what world do some bulkheads a damage control and some rigs cost 25mill?

Its not just the bulkheads. I’m one of many Proc owners who were doing nicely before the changes without using the crystals. But Strip Miner II has been nerfed ( something I don’t think anyone has mentioned here ) and now delivers about 20% less ore…basically forcing people to use the crystals…and each of those modules is 6M ISK. The total extra cost ( including a reinforced bulkhead in low slot ), and loss of existing rigs, is about 25M.

Ok two things……

1 You didnt have those modules before? What were you using instead?

2 Using T2 strip miners without crystals before the patch was awful. If you were actually doing that then i have no words.

Nothing has changed pre patch to post patch apart from numbers. How you mine with strips is the same as ever.

Im going to need receipts. This just does not compute. Worst case you had 3 rigs to replace and 3 low slots right?

Medium core defense field extenders x3 for rigs 1Mill a pop

2 reinforced bulkhead II in lows at 400k each.

1 damage control II at 500k

Thats less than 5 mill.

Miners know best how easy it is to get ganked.

That’s not the same as knowing how easy it is to gank.

I’m not saying I know well how to gank, because I don’t. I do know however that the people who know best how hard an activity is are the people who do that activity. In case of miner ganking, not those miners themselves but the ones who gank them will know best.

I got pulled over by the cops once. My impression was that traffic stops are super-easy.

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I was speaking generally, not specifically about those who only gank miners. The guys who are ganking the big ships are some of the best pilots in the game.

Wut. How do you not know where to flee too? That doesn’t even make sense. Flee to a safe or station. Holy crud learn to EVE.

And uh you’re wrong. The ganker scout doesn’t magically know where you are unless they probed or are on grid with you. And by then if you aren’t warping off, you’ve already slipped.

You don’t need to know where they are once they pop into local. You already know they are in system and you should dock up/safe up.

Last night, Aiko and crew popped into a system I was in, and I docked up immediately. Guess what? I didn’t die.

It can be. The safe is merely breathing space to figure out where they are and if you should dock. You can also see the probes on D-scan if they getting close so you can bounce from safe to safe.

Please, learn how to EVE before commenting. You’re embarrassing. The “average miner” is only a sitting duck if they are terrible players. And they deserve the death that’s coming.

There are tons of miners who mine in dangerous places and survive all the time.

Use T1, no residue. You’re welcome :smiley:

Truth. Avoiding a gank isn’t hard. Cilla simply wants daddy CCP to save them LOL.

It’s not only in The Witcher that ’ to hunt a monster you need to think like a monster’ ( actually originally from Nietzsche ). But gankers spend their time decrying miners…so that lesson never gets learned. As a miner I am constantly thinking ’ hmm…why don’t gankers do this…or that’…things that would make their ganking so much easier.

Consider, for example, how many miners save a landmark right next to a huge asteroid…then warp off to a station to deposit the ore, and return to the exact same spot. Knowing this, you could easily have 5 or 6 Catalysts there waiting. No need to creep up…or even appear on d-scan. Just get a scout to mark the location, and have the gankers warp to it while miner is offloading their ore. You could even get those 6 gankers to enter the system over 10 minutes…so as not to arouse suspicion in Local. I’d wager 99% of miners wont be expecting half a dozen Catalysts to be right there waiting at their saved landmark.

See how easy it could be ?

This comment only reveals how little you know about ganking. If you want to learn about ganking, learn how it’s done first, then try theory-crafting new tactics.

Most miner gankers have negative security status. They can’t just hang around in a belt, waiting for you to come back to a bookmark. Facpo would destroy them before you get there.

Even if they have positive sec status, it’s a safer bet to scout a ganker in a belt and just try to gank them where they are than it is to hope they will return to the same spot.

Huh. As Luke said, every single word you said was wrong.

Its obvious even if you are an alt, you’ve never hunted another player before. And def not one who actually knows what their doing.

Yep. And yep.