You really don’t get it. Any noob mining moon goo makes some of it go poof. I don’t care the vets are complaining about nerfs to Roquals (I do care about the Orca nerfs since they’re important for the corp) I care that moon owners might take up 30% of the ore harvested since they’ll calculate based on the stuff removed from the rock not what is harvested. Or they might just ban noobs from the moons to avoid wastage. And the this whole thing is a disaster since CCP might adjust the numbers, but the concept is not going to be thrown out the window. Maybe wastage on Tech Is might be 1/8 instead of 1/2, but it will still waste ore. So moon owners are going to be beary of new players who just waste all that stuff. As long as prices fall somewhat, they can’t afford to lose 1/2 the ore (I guess it doesn’t matter if the price remians the same, but the bots will make sure the prices go down after this). This means when our Endurances (or Ventures… really inefficient but they can run ice lasers) go to an ice belt outside, any existing mining operation will chase them away to avoid wastage. In the current game state, sometimes low sec miners tolerate each other when neither fleet feels in a fighting mood. Or maybe you’ll just dismiss this as “oh the vets posioned your mind” even though I can do the math by myself perfectly fine.
Crap… Let me try one more time.
I am not saying that players never have a reason to be unhappy.
I am not saying that CCP never makes mistakes.
I am not saying that players should never ask for changes.
What I am saying is that the way people chose to respond to change, adversity, and CCP f*ck ups will have an effect on (1) your ability to survive and thrive in Eve, (2) your ability to have fun, and (3) your ability to influence CCP.
There is a difference between constructive feedback and rants. There is a difference between adaptation, and being an evolutionary holdout who angrily persists in using deprecated strats. There is a difference in trying to help other players survive adversity and adapt to changes, and setting them up for failure, frustration, and burnout.
Do you understand what I’m saying? I’m not trying to tell you it’s raining as CCP pisses down your back. I’m trying to tell you that the bitter vet attitude is a destructive attitude that sabotages the self, and others.
■■■■.
I hope you see the light before you quit.
And yeah, one the biggest reasons I dislike bitter vets is because morale is contagious, and they most certainly sabotage the morale of others. they’re like zombies or something… really angry zombie karens. It’s ironic. I try to instill in newbros an attitude that will set them up for success and have fun… and somehow they’ll sometimes view me as the enemy, while considering the bitter vet that is sabotaging them to be their ally and friend.
Fuckity ■■■■ ■■■■.
like they always do…wait.
I like your deer, it’s cute
magnified by knee jerk reactions that arn’t even factually correct.
I mean look at that main thread on the mining changes. How many rant posts are there in there that are claiming the waste mechanic halfs yield. How many rant posts are just inventing precentages for how much yield ships are using?
Im not a fan of the changes (but I can live with most of it) but exagerating the issues and making huge generalisations without fully understanding the mechanics is not how you get CCP to listen. Screaming waste is hurting my yield, when it quite clearly isnt, just gives CCP cause to say “well they dont understand it so once they do it will be fine” and causes legimate and well thought out feedback to be lost in noise.
My biggest issue is that this waste mechanic comes off the back of the revamp to new player experience. Which was positive for bringing people into the game. And now those new players are going to join a corp and the corp will be all “nope………you cant mine here until you can use t2 modules”. Super unwelcoming. Its a shame CCP dont appear to have considered how this and the lengths the established player base will go to in order to ensure waste is minimised as far as possible.
so basically an overrall nerf? lmfao
There are a lot of combinations now so it totally depends.
Orca has 3 possible setups, No CIC, T1 CIC, T2 CIC. These generate mining bonuses of 40.4, 44.5, and 46.5 respectively.
Mining Lasers have 5 possible setups (excluding Type C and Faction), T1, A1, A2, B1, B2. These give you a range (on a skiff) of anywhere from 9.9m3/s to 14.9m3/s before boosting.
If you pair a No Fuel setup (No CIC, T1 lasers) a single Orca/Skiff team goes down to 66% of current yield. If you go top end (T2 CIC, B2 Lasers) you go up to 118%.
Why is this a question? Why do we care? These mechanics are way over thought by everyone. Look what CCP has done to mining. There are timers, fuels, cores, crystals, waste, compression loss, more skills, reprocessing loss, metas, factions blah blah blah. Now we’re to consider a social score???
Can you imagine two more iterations of this?
It’s like the US government was let loose on Eve.
so only dual box or better need apply?..
Same old ■■■■, waste millions of isk and skill up a million skills to get 5% extra profit. Then they’ll nerf that.
like I have been saying, if you chase away enough miners, you can justify selling fit ships in the NES Store.
Yeah just dumped my small mining setup. I think absolutely fleet boosted and groups should generate more rewards/ore etc for the effort but ive been mining since “Halada’s Mining Guide” was current and though things have changed its never gimped or cut my same effort down. Only the 100% refine nerf did that years ago after grinding standings for it with the NPC station but took that in stride…
Now the same Orca used to fleet boost entire system with, then only in same belt, but still the same boosts is now in fact less boosts even if I train up the skills and spend for the fuel. Because im not running 12 damn accounts like a second job.
Maybe ill run missions with the orca and its combat drone bonuses or did they nerf that too…
So for the solo drone mining orca pilots in panic. This Drone mining nerf isnt half bad if you use the Tech 2 core. Without the core it will seem like solo orca mining is dead.
Currently on Tranq you get aprox 90k m3/hr yield with T2 mining drones.
On Sisi without the core on the orca you get aprox 30k m3/hr yield with the same drones.
With the T2 core active you end up at aprox 66k m3/hr yield with the same drones.
So from the numbers above the yield isn’t to horrible if you use what is provided. And a bit higher with faction drones.
Yes I know there is abit of fuel needed to run the core.
This is of course with pretty good skills.
Heavy Water logistics are going to be a pain, you burn through your fuel bay in just under 2 hours.
So if you don’t mine near a trade hub you have to run back and fill up your whole ship to mine for a few days.
Heavy water logistics shouldn’t be that hard, all mining ships will have an ice bay. You just need a reprocessing facility somewhere nearby.
There are none who preach so hard as the born again.
You’ve certainly been white knighting for CCP and against “bitter vets” pretty hard lately. Like, almost every post in every thread you can.
You may not realize that “CCP is pissing all over you, so learn how to purify and recycle piss better” isn’t the way most people want to interact with their leisure time games.
You note that morale is contagious and can have bad effects on the game, but don’t realize that perhaps this is exactly what some bitter vets are trying to achieve. Because CCP doesn’t give a damn about what you think, or your constructive feedback, or your support for their directions.
They have demonstrated time and again that the only message they really care about it is loss of income. So if someone decides they want to effectively send a message to CCP that they’re headed in the wrong direction, then getting as many people as possible on the “quit now and unsub” bandwagon is a perfectly valid strategy.
Personally, I don’t bother trying to stir up either support or boycotts of EVE, because I don’t think CCP is prepared to utilize the intelligence and skills to respond effectively to either one. I will offer positive feedback on anything they do that I feel is positive, and negative feedback on anything they do that I feel is negative.
Crusades and windmill-tilting really aren’t a good use of anyone’s time when the devs aren’t actually listening.
@Shipwreck_Jones simple question for you. How many years have you played this game as an Industrial toon?
And in Industrial core mode your currently stuck there for 5 minutes, easy prey
I did industry exclusively for my first year and half, and have done it semi-passively since then (I even made some P.I. videos, but they are terrible quality, so I don’t recommend them). So, no industry is not my main play style, nor am I as knowledgeable about it as other players.
Why do you ask? Do you think you think that my credentials as an industrialist are relevant to any of the arguments that I’ve been trying to make (i.e. 1) a bad attitude causes self-sabotage, 2) bad morale is contagious, and 3) giving constructive feedback is a hell of lot more… constructive than ranting and calling for devs to be fired).
Cause if so, yes, you are right. And, if not, then yes, you are right. Cause I’m not going to argue with people any more about this. I have tried to give people what I considered to be solid advice, it’s up to you whether or not you want to listen.
Think you are right on the money on your thoughts, my question then is how effective is the CSM? I saw the talking in stations episode where one CSM member was on the panel and he seemed to be a CCP fanboi. How much opposition did the CSM offered ?