New Player Corps

Communications Center General Discussion
21

I don´t think it´s the age of the player that is creating a corp that really matters, but rather the reasons why people create corps is the problem.

Sure, there are inexperienced players who will make mistakes if they try to lead a corp. But making mistakes and learning things is not always a bad thing.

Now here is some speculation from my side (Yes, I have no data to back this up as I don´t believe such data really exists at this point. I can only go with my personal experience on the matter).

I would guess the number one reason for players of any age to create a new corp in high sec is tax evasion. Sometimes theses “tax evasion corps” will also recruit other players and will use the low tax rate as main selling point which sadly does work very often.

But in reality those corps have nothing to offer, in regards to teamplay or working towards a common goal they pretty much are just a shared chat channel. Those corps break apart as soon as they run into the slightest bit of trouble, these corps break apart in different forms.

Those corps however mark themselves as corps doing certain activities, they mostly end up being people playing solo and simply evading the npc corp tax. For the people who actually are interested in playing as a team and interacting with other people, there is no real way to filter out those corps. Which means a lot of potential recruits are “stolen” from corps who actually are interested in being a corp.

So what we have ended up with is a huge amount of corps that do not really have any purpose other than lower taxes, which at best only lead to frustration amongst players who actually are trying to find corps that are actual corporations, but keep ending up in corps without any goals and/or proper structure.

And here comes the part all carebears will hate me for:

This certainly is not a fix not get rid of bad corps, but it is a start of stomping corps that are created for one of the wrong reasons:

Change the tax structure:

1. Remove the NPC Corp Tax and replace it with a high sec tax. Income that was previously taxed by NPC corps should be subject to taxes for everyone who generates his income that way in high sec. Name it concord tax.

1.1. Everyone pays that equal tax for the safety mechanincs in high sec.

1.2. People who want to play solo are not forced into corps, they can stay on their own and on top of it don´t have to pay taxes if they venture into more dangerous space (in regards to game mechanics).

2. Taxes or parts of the taxes that have been payed could be refunded to the corp if the corp loses stuff in wars. (Only applies to losses in high sec!)

2.1. If corps make themselves open to the possibility of losing some of the protection they payed for I think it would be fair to get some ISK back to soften the blow if ships are lost.

2.2. Corps that actually work together can run pretty much all content in frigs / cruisers that can be easily replaced during war times.

2.3. Incursion corps certainly will have to use bigger toys to keep doing what they do, but with the amount of money they can make, they should end up paying that much in taxes that even non blingy battleship losses will be covered by reimbursement.

3. Corps which declare war are excluded from reimbursement, while any of those wars are still active.

In conclusion this could kill tax evasion corps. It still gives people the incentive to join corps. Wars become less hurtful for the victims as long as they play it smart.

DISCLAIMER: This is by no means a well thought out idea, basically it was just a brain fart that happened while reading the thread, however I stand by my opinion that the main problem with corporations is not the lack of experience of the members / leader, but rather the lack of a real purpose for the corps to exist in the first place.

2 Likes
22

Fixed that for you :smile:

Having your own corp is one of the few EVE dreams a new player can pursue without a months-long training plan or some credit card warrioring. I have seen some new players with a gung-ho attitude create very nice corporations.

As you indicated, the downside is that a lot/most new corporations are formed without any understanding of the game/player dynamics or the stamina required to run a successful corporation.

From my psychology 101 textbook: the natural mindset for a human is very tribal. In games like EVE that can lead to players sticking with their corporation (either as CEO or member) when their personal desires/development are better served by moving to a new corporation.

23

So, this change means my corp can no longer be wardeccd? cause that is the safety mechanic for npc corps…pay mandatory tax…dont get dec’d

curious if your thoughts were a brain fart or a beer fart…

24

That is not what I wrote at all… try again.

Edit: Not that I really care much about defending that idea, if people come up with legitimate arguments against it, but at least read and try to understand the whole thing instead of cherry picking a single point and trying to put words in my mouth.

25

Just a fact? No, it’s not. Really, it’s not. It’s just your rather not-so-well-thought-out-opinion. You just don’t seem to see this from enough angles. The ability to create a corp on basically day one is BAD, because the player in question has absolutely no way of knowing what he’s getting himself into. He can not deal with the responsibilities and he can not deal with the dangers that come with creating a corp. Most people can’t even months into the game!

Even worse, when a new player creates a new player corp every single one in that corp suddenly has to deal with the problems of getting war decced. They might even put up a structure incapable of defending it, then quitting because they unknowingly bit more than they could chew.

I really could go on, but this is enough already.

2 Likes
26

Your points are especially true because in WoW Clone MMOs players create vanity corps/guilds/etc but because you can solo most the content that is not too bad.

1 Like
27

Just because someone does create a corp does not necessarily mean that it will be wardec’d. I have a Corporation that has never been wardec’d.

28

If I read that correctly, you have a small personal corporation. Depending on member numbers and home location a war-deccer may simply not be interested enough to declare war on it.
A large corporation full of new characters based near a trade hub is a very different situation.

1 Like
29

It would depend on the intention and quality of the leadership in the corp and the members to follow.

1 Like
30

So regarding all the players that got wardeced and left in the CSM minutes, how many were caused by new players creating corps?

Is this part of the root cause?

31

I think its a small part of it. Vast majority of new players that join new corps, join corps that are actually not completely brand new but that can be termed as “newish” I think. On my NPC corp alt, from what little I gather from chat they don’t just form corps, vast majority of time they join them.

So lets say for example they join a corp that is only a few months old that has been formed by someone that came into the game earlier. That someone is still very unexperienced and their corps are still very small.

Then going down the line in the said example, their 5-10 man corp with maybe 3 people on at a time gets wardecced by a corp / alliance with 100s of active members online around the clock. There is not much other then dock up and log off that they can do. Yes, I read about that corp started by a streamer on reddit, but first off it was a streamer with a big following to begin with, and 2nd those are rare exceptions, you have to look at the averages. Average players are not exceptional, they will dock up and stayed docked and / or perma log off.

When newbs ask me for references and good corps to join, as much as I hate it I point them to karmafleet and horde. I try to give them some good advice before they go and join to at least get themselves somewhat ready, but I feel those are best newb options in the game now. Unfortunate as that is.

but back to your question, I think if you remove ability to make corps for X months, it may help a little, but just a little, it will absolutely not solve the issues.

1 Like
32

It’s going to need some refinement to close all loopholes but as an idea it’s an angle I’ve not seen before, and it has merit. Would be worthwhile to look in to it. Problem is of course that CCP doesn’t play their own game, it doesn’t help the CSM null lobby and ISD don’t get it either, it seems.

Reason for people being vehemently against it: mah 0% tax!
Any other reason is just lies.

33

Maybe I´ll drop a more detailed version of the proposal into Features & Ideas in the near future. I don´t want to hijack this thread for a discussion which is focussed on the idea :).

1 Like
34

Any player that starts a small corp and recruits new players better be prepared to put in a lot of teaching time.

I started a corp a few years ago, went to the starter systems and recruited newer players. We ended up having a blast! I took them on wh day trips, did in corp pvp to get some practice and learn different ships and fittings, set goals and gave out prizes. We did a couple ls roams, got creamed, but they found them quite fun. I used lvl 4 missions and mining activities for them to make isk (and give me a break). I did the best that I could to keep the game fun for them, but I started to get burned out in the process.

After we had grown to about 15 members, then came the war dec. Some left the corp, but most stayed and we tried to provide some “content”, but experience and isk were very much against us at the time. Eventually the war ended but the thing I remember most was the severe drop in membership morale. I tried to re-ignite the spark that was there before the war, but it never reached the same level.

My corp lasted almost a year, but I was pretty much burned out and membership started to move on. Some joined a wh corp, a couple went to null sec, a few stayed in high sec. I had a couple quit the game, but overall I thought my corp experience was positive.

Since then I have joined some really bad corps where leadership is only interested in raking in tax money and bored me to the point I wanted to poke my eyes out. My guess is any new player that joins this type of corp would leave very quickly.

In my opinion a new player is not capable of starting and maintaining a new corp to make it fun for other members, they just don’t have the experience. Many high sec corps are just as bad or worse, even if they are run by experienced players.

I like the idea of not allowing a new player to start a corp until about 3 months of character game time. The game is doing the new player and any one that joins them a disservice by limiting their experiences in the game.

3 Likes
35

To create a corp or be an officer in a corp:

  1. 3 months old
  2. At least 10m skills
  3. Omega
  4. At least 30 days in a player run corp
1 Like
36

I read in another thread an interesting idea, what about Alpha corps and Omega corps? There could be restrictions for Alpha corps like not allowed to own structures or POCOs, maybe only 3 offices total, limit the number of members, etc… idk.

Perhaps some version of this idea could be merged into a new war dec system to help newer players from being farmed before they get a chance to learn the game.

I am not a fan of protecting any player. I feel players will learn more going the hard way, but in today’s bubble wrap society the younger generation are not as tough as us old(er) guys.

37

Is that a quote from CCP in 2004? #LetThemPlay

38

Typo?

39

Yes, thanks for catching that.

40

It really depends on the player.

A newbro can be a good CEO if he is able to implement change after a heavy corp loss. If he can asses the situation and make the best possible decision for the corp then I see nothing wrong with that.

Let’s say a newbro CEO gets wardecced and suffers heavy loss in a couple of engagements or his members get caught at gate camps the smart choice would be to move further away from populated areas and start using cheap scouts, use npc haulers or Frog. A good CEO newbro or experienced will recognise these choices easily. A good CEO will look for options and talk to others and seek further insight if their knowledge is limited.

I like the idea of a newbro being a CEO, the idea of me creating a toon and working under a newbro CEO appeals to me. I’ve actually done this once and had a really good space adventure to be honest. I met some cool people as well.

The ability to make a corp will show a new player the reality of Eve, It’s up to them to make something out of it.