I was inspired to writing this, by CCP Rattati interview on Oz twitch stream.
But first, few things before we dive into wall of text. I’m not native English speaker. It probably will be grammatical nightmare. And I’m not better at explaining stuff, especially in English. But I will try hard to make it as easy to read and understand as possible.
If I remember and understand correctly CCP Rattati main question and idea for discussion was “How new player (day 1) can start profitable industry?”
In stream he explains “profitable” as “enough for living”. I think 90% of isk making activates are considered profitable when you can afford 500 plex by the end of month (30 days). “Free” omega is goal that many players have and often is one of first long term goal that new players make.
Explaining what can be considered as profitable activity is especially important in industry because it’s really easy to get more isk than you invest into production. Even as new player or alpha player (additional 2% tax). There is enough t1 items that will sell for more isk than it’s cost to produce. Ammunition, rigs even some t1 modules. Problem is, that even if you are theoretically make positive amount of isk. Or margins in % seams high. Actual volume of isk in this item is extremely low. So even if you for example produce ammunition 24/7 and successfully sell it at positive margin. By the end of month, you probably won’t make more than few hundred million of isk. Making this activity not worth it for many players, especially as main and only activity.
Meta modules and PvE drops also resulted in 99% of basic t1 items being useless. Resulted in them, being only another material required for T2 production nothing more. You can make more t1 ammunition ratting in null sec than doing industry. There is no real demand for t1 industry. No demand for items that new player can produce. Exception are t1 rigs that can be produced by new and alpha players. But again, volume of isk and volume of trade is low. Low enough that it’s hard to make bigger profit over time.
Natural conclusion is going into t2 production. Well, even if you specialize in one item or group of items you want to produce. From day 1 to actual being able start job (including invention), you need around 30 days of skill training at omega rate. Not to mention you also need omega to do t2 industry. Since this is obviously out of new player reach, I won’t dive into T2 production.
Trade. Market and industry are tied together really hard. You can’t make isk from industry without at lest basic understanding of market. But what is industry and what is trading? When you google “EVE industry guide”. Most if not all will suggest to not sell your produced goods in major trade hub, for bigger profit. But the question is: this is profit from industry or trading? If the price outside hub is higher. You can buy same item on market sell somewhere else and make same isk. My point is, that teaching about market should be in line with teaching about industry or even before that. Since this two activates are dependent on each other.
Difference in other areas of space. Or I should say, lack of difference. There is no benefit or disadvantage of producing in Caldari, Gallente, Amarr or Minmatar space. Each area of space is identical from mechanical standpoint. Yes, we have high security space, low and null. With different bonuses. But result of this is only one: If you want to do industry go to null or quit. I think good example for possible solution are thukker rigs for lowsec structures. Resulting in theoretically more profitable, capital production in lowsec. We should have different bonuses and maybe negative effect per unique geographical areas of space. This goes for all aspects of EVE but let’s focus on industry for now.
Competition. Only difference makes amount if isk you have and how good spreadsheets you have. When isk is only advantage. New player can never be competitive. Yes, you can buy isk or buy sp. But no matter how much RL money you dump, there is always someone how has more isk or have more optimized production chain. There needs to be some sort of niche for items that new player can produce with demand for them. But on other hand make them not very interesting for vets. Diminishing returns? Character age restrictions? Already mentioned geographical bonuses?
In game tools for industry are garbage. It’s fact. Using estimated values from in game tools guarantee that you will only lose isk. If you want to make profit from industry you must use third party software, excel etc. And since every new industrialist is your competition. There is not that much publicly available tools or guides to make own spreadsheet. Quite high knowledge of excel really must be mandatory to even think about industry?
I think that those are some of key issues with new player industry. Not all of them (I probably forgot few things that I wanted to mention during writing) but should be good enough starting point for CCP to start looking into it or at lest start discussion here and between devs.
I Rembert that when @Torvald_Uruz published his CSM presentation about FW, advice on how presents ideas for CCP was to outline issues rather than jump to ideas and solutions. I tried to focus on this rather present my own ideas. I pointed out few concepts that I had in mind. But I hope that this won’t have negative effect on whole message.
I understand that CCP don’t always reply but I hope that at lest someone from company will give it a read.
Feel free to discuss, and add your own insights on the issue. Keep it civil and don’t instantly trash thread with personal fights. Thanks and I appreciate you reading up to this point.
Google docs version https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_zf9hsFc2ZrTYx8BONHySV9gpCIRUgEyapqqrotVnD8/edit?usp=sharing
