New PvP Player Mode?

Okay we all know that Rats randomly attack you While u are mining. And they are so easy your drones can take care of them? Well what if there was a Log in mode or mini-Game option where you as a player can control one of these rats ships? (or a group of you can)

  1. Log into the mode. This locks u out from your pilots ability to fly any of your ships. If in space your ship is locked in place (no cloaks allowed). [see below for why this is not fatal.]

  2. You sit there until the server normally warps a rat fleet into a belt and randomly assigns you into one of the NPC ships. At the same time notifies you and does a warp in animation. Which also gives u a few seconds to check out what functions the NPC has. (the HUD changes to the one assigned to the Rat Ship). at which point u are now in control of one of them.

  3. You can now attack any players on grid. If the other Rat ships are also player controlled u can Coordinate with them (u get an instance of shared chat).

  4. Let the fun begin.

I can see Shooting the other rats ships (u acting to defend the friendly fleet) as problematic to the intent of this mini-game. So banning that might be considered. But not by disallowing targeting since inter-rat remote effects or other effect might be desired.

Yes when a Player controls these rats - you can even allow Modules or modes not normally on AI rats. … Remote Shield reps for example. Having the Rat ship carry the Players name may also be a thing. (making new friends is also the goal here, lol)

Rewards for this could be that the Wrecks belong to you so u can loot free of consequences, Bounty points, SP, Pirate LP for pirate stuff, Improved Pirate NPC Standing, etc. Or Redeemable Item rewards. For me it would just be fun. On the other side players who successfully defend themselves can get enhanced bounties or other rewards as well.

I would not suggest them to be too valuable - as tradable goods or income - because that would lead to abuse. [there is a way around this by implementing a combat analysis (did they really fight to the death or not) rating to scale the player rewards. But that is probably a soon™ thing]

  • Keep in mind this is NOT normal PVP between players. You are using somewhat inferior and limited ships with possible capabilities above what a normal AI rat may have. But you won’t have the full capabilities you can find in a fitted player ship. (for now)

Fleeting with friends ahead of time improves your chances of landing in the same NPC group together. Also increases defender’s choice of detectable targets. All normal fleet windows and abilities are available.

An advanced version of this where a fleeted group of players can actually control the roam of the NPC fleet (but not pick which ships they can control … mmm, or maybe they can, lol) by the server forming up a group - in a random spot in system - and then players being able to select destinations to warp to. These destinations can be any that you would normally be able to do. For instance a fleet member who is NOT logged to the mini-game can combat scan other players and/or provide warp ins to the ones who are logged in.

  • This would allow NPCs to show up ‘anywhere’ at ‘any’ time instead of just randomly. Even to the spot where another Remote NPC player is hiding, lol.

Might also consider adding Consequences to this play style - like a player going suspect upon ending of rat control as a result. Maybe without ability to dock or jump gate during the Suspect period. Maybe with a separate 5 minute deny cloaking timer. This might break up the players sense of fun however. Maybe have it determined by RNG? so it only happens occasionally?

The playing field would be the system you are in only.

There may also be options for rat type, such as reg belt rats, Anom/Signature/Mission Rats, Roaming FOB rats, etc… with of course limitations so not to allow you to easily screw people up, Like allowing a Mission goal rat ship to warp off grid to deny progress (player warp should be disallowed anyway) or making the controlled ship too OP for a mission runner.

For belt or combat site rats - the goal is to kill another player… for mission rats it could be limited to just to give them a challenge and make missions somewhat unpredictable and surprising in some ways. with just a ‘slim’ chance to ruin their day.

Can also have abilities for player to form up rat fleets designed especially for this game mode. That allows players to control them and the AI handles those ships in the group not controlled by a player, but allow player to have some control, like telling the AI ships as to which target to attack or warp destination, etc. This would be more complex version of the mini game, but worth consideration in the future.

  • Allowing Player skills/boosters/implants to come into play may also be considered.

The purpose of this - other than a new and fun game mode - is to give AFK’rs a shake up at the same time you provide a wider variation of ability to rats (with no way for the players being attacked to anticipate or document these abilities beforehand, other than the inherent limits determined by the pirate faction or race of the area).

It also provides Meta game-play possibilities as you can enter a hostile player system and work against them alone or as a fleeted group. Not in a huge way, but definitely in a noticeable one. Redefining the cloaky Camper issue into one where campers can scratch their itch - but at the same time allow the people in the system to fight back. Sov systems may have an inhibitor or limiter system for this… or maybe there could be a deployable for use anywhere (one that can be attacked and not easily anchorable or cheap please).

  • Might be prudent to make this player’s ship invisible and invulnerable while they are controlling an NPC ship. Also would shut off all running modules and remote effects).

I see fitting ships to be harder to detect, being able to haul loot, etc might be a new fitting consideration.

They in turn can alternately try to find you and destroy you. Players in system can coordinate to catch the person. Ie., in extreme cases - they all stop ratting to disallow him chances to enter active game mode, which makes him normally visible to sensors.

Alternatively (with limitations) you can design the game mode to be available only to players who are docked up or stationary anywhere in space to activate the mini-game and be randomly inserted into a rat ship anywhere in the cluster. Normally you have to wait and be patient for the server to determine it wants to send a rat fleet to a belt AND have a player target on-grid there before the game goes into combat mode.

  • So like real PVP there are long periods of inactivity and waiting punctuated by a few minutes of frantic action. However if you play it in cluster or region wide mode then u can get action almost continuously.

You can escape out from the combat or action mode at anytime and the rat would revert to AI control and abilities. AND allow you to do your own things like delivering jobs, mining, continue on your journey, so on and so on.

This really is a game mode that can be randomly played for a few minutes OR allow you to completely immerse yourself into with ability to effect other players at the same time.


This idea also allows you to Upgrade how Rats work without having to invest billions in an AI mainframe to do it. This is not a good idea anyway due to the increased chance of it going Skynet on you.


There are so many new possibilities with not really that much programming compared to having to create assets and mechanics from scratch.

If this mode is popular (and why would it not be?) it could:

  • Attract 100’s of Thousands of new players who rather enjoy arcade style FPS only. While still requiring them to ‘play’ the game, IE., learning skills, learning how it works, so on.

  • It would give players a solution to the complaint that Eve Is a grind and nothing to do most of the time (it wont change the grind - but it might make them care less about complaining)!

  • It could change the desire to be a cloaky camper to an interactive game instead. And allow them to scratch that itch in all parts of space, not just Null.

  • Saving CCP millions on new programming to enhance the NPC Combat AI. Don’t tell Bill Gates.

  • Not to mention it would be a game changer in possibly a big way. Think of the increased player excitement for the game. … Come on CCP - You Know You Want To.


If you like this idea, in whole or just in part. please comment like and subscribe, lol. Unless they love the idea by itself, CCP won’t consider it unless other players also express their like or dislike to promote it.* Please submit likes only. I don’t take criticisms well, hehe.

Also yes I did think of Gankers like safety or Code too.

Rats fleets are limited and small in numbers - so I dont think this would get out of hand like high-sec ganking in general is. But it would give them an outlet to scratch their itch without it being as bad as a 20 man catalyst fleet suiciding into you.

Contradicting yourself here… Instead, CCP has to invest millions to make this mode.

not sure what contradiction u meant with the 1st quote. But as for the 2nd:

Upgrading AI to fight like a player is not easy, it requires tons of programing in ways they are not used to - with outcomes they can’t always predict. They have been working on it for years … this idea circumvents the need for that in a very simple way. We will still have a need for good AI - there won’t be players in every Rat Ship you run across. But this can make Rats exciting NOW and make the wait for Player level AI not so pressing.

The bottom line with my idea is to allow a player to control the ship is just a matter of disconnect AI commands and substituting commands from the player. In addition they change the players camera viewpoint to the rat’s location and simply redo the players HUD with the modules, weapons of the rat. Rats even have infinite ammo so no need to worry about that.

In addition they can upgrade the rat ships at their leisure as updates happen. Think about it. Normal Belt Rats don’t have ammo issues, they have infinite cap, simple prop mods, weapons, no active defense I am aware of. so the controls presented on the player HUD would be minimal, but still it conforms to how the players are used to.

The only real amount of heavy work would be - IF they go this route - apply skills to the ship. Now they could take the lower effort way and simply apply those skills (properly filtered) to applicable stats of the rat ship. The session change routine may be able to do that with plug and play and no issues… Or they could do a redesign of rat ships to make their electronic appearance in the code exactly like a player ship (I have no idea how they coded it in the current game, but i assume it more simplified than a player ship’s). This may need some re-coding in the old software. Or hopefully they can just drop ‘player ship’ code in its place to make them comparable. doing it that way wont have any external effects, but combined with my idea it would allow them to design rat ships with actual player format modules, traits and ability to make changes on the fly to accommodate players taking control, skills and possible module modifications determined by future updates.

All that is just the long winded way of saying it would be no more hard to substitute a player into a rat ship than it is to change ships in a hanger. With the ability to change the rats fit based on player/programming activities and future updates. Essentially you can have a rat ship warp in that is fully indistinguishable from a well fit player ship. We don’t want this, not at first anyway…but the full capability is there.

Simply put - the coding needed to do that is trivial compared to creating a new AI. All the other software would be used in its normal fashion without any changes at all.

I would also add that what I am talking about is NOT a situation where a miner is mining ore and 3 rat ships warp in that are now 10 times more deadly than the AI version.

More deadly ? yes. but only because a player is making decisions. BUT he is working with a ship that is basically a weak version of the corresponding Player ship. Think of it as a player ship fitted with just t1 guns, Only Base resists, no defense enhancements, no rigs, a prop mode and that is it. Yes his skills may boost it up some, but he is starting with only a basic fit,

Even with this a player can cause more mischief than an AI would. But it would be well removed on what he could do in a well fit player ship.

The Goal here is NOT to create a situation where it is indistinguishable from normal PVP with teleporting fleet ships. But to both allow players to do PvP as a Pirate ship, without all the needs and preparation you would normally have to do, all without having to spend or risk ships or items - while at the same time enhancing the encounters made between Rat ships and players.

I would think many people who rat and mine would enjoy the new challenges. they are not overpowering but just knowing (or guessing) if a rat is a player or not when they warp in will be welcome. players would be able to get the same adrenaline rush from fighting belt rats that they do in Full on Pvp. but with a much less chance or losing a ship as u would in Pvp.

That is a good point worth remembering. from the players point of view running the rat ship? In most situations he has a good chance he is going to lose. Actual kills may be far between. But it is Possible to win… when they do? they will get good rewards. Tangible ones. every other time they get things like LP, Points, maybe some sort of score you can brag about, etc. You wont get filthy rich from doing it. But that is not the draw, the draw is ‘Pvp now’ not later after hours, or days, of preparation. That said, through the LP or a point score, w/e … there could be some really decent rewards.

All this of course has to be worked out and balanced. But essentially this is a game mode that caters to people who just want a quick fix of PVP without all the fuss you would normally have to do. Some people just want to do this occasionally when bored, other may do this exclusively as it fits their temperament and playing style.

  • Its hoped that it attracts people who normally would play eve and give it a pass because its too big or too complicated.

This can be presented to the player in tutorial, carrier missions or in the help channels as a suggestion when they complain. This way they can play doing what they like while still being part of the eve universe and interacting with players who don’t have that play style without ruining everything. This may allow eve to be both a new way of life OR just an afternoons distraction.

Even alphas could give this a go to try pvp with minimal risk. Also a good way to get them used to dying in a ship. They could add a glorious animation of the ship dying to make it even more intense, lol. Maybe a pirate commander cussing you out. what ever is fun. Before you end up back in your real ship. Doing this suddenly might be jarring to their psyche.

  • Two completely different game styles - yet still one game. This Is The Way.

For the busy folk, could you give us a tl;dr in 3 sentences?

1 Like

LOL, yeah I know I talk like a Magpie with walls of text, sorry.

As an Advertisement:

[Target: New Players]

Now you can join the ranks of the Pirates! Down With The Suppressors!
Defend your Ore Belts from the Capitalist Capsuleers!
Be a Sansha, Serpentus or Pirate of your choice defending our mission sites.

[Target: New People Who Prefer First Person Shooters Only]

New FPS Party Game, Join the Lost cause, Defend your homeland!
Jumps In a Pirate Spaceship and blast the Enemy Scum from your skies
Many will die, few may win … be a hero.

[Target: Older Eve Players]

Feel sorry for the NPC’s you have oppressed over the years?
Now u can take control & fly their ships at belts and combat sites against Evil players like you.
Would You Like To Know More?

the TLDR

Take over NPC ships in Combat Sites and Ore belts.
No special skills required, jump right in anytime & anywhere
Why wait for AI to be as good as Humans? Use A Human instead!

Sorry that sounded like more Adverts, but I was in that mode.

Is that what you were asking for?

Thanks for your effort. I think I got an idea.
I can’t say I find it very realistic to happen at some time, but who knows…

Yeah. I agree it may sound like a far out idea. And it might be something just for Events. But it has the potential - in some form or another - to shake things up in a positive way.

For instance:

People make comments that rats are just a nuisance because u can AFK them with your drones.

This would make those comments go away.

People AFK or Bot in belts while mining and something needs to be done. Most players agree that this is not a real way to play.

This would provide a method for ‘players’ to help stop those situations. Bots are basically AFK machines vs AI Rats , These are not AI Rats anymore.

Everyone claims mining is boring.

Yeah… Not any more.

Many miners do not know of, understand or have a desire to learn PvP.

This Could bring Pvp to mining in a way that is instructive And allows them some Pvp that is not OP against them yet is still Pvp.

While having a Combat Group to provide CAP coverage to a mining fleet seems like an obvious idea, This rarely happens. usually because it is boring for the combat pilot and expensive to the miners who have to pay him.

This feature would not ‘require’ miners hire CAP, but would provide an additional incentive in the miner’s decision to get one or not. It also provides some real excitement for the combat pilot.

  • Again I agree this Feature is not ‘required’ to fix a big problem in the game. However it has the possibility to make a huge number of little ones in meaningful ways.

But keep in mind - the biggest Change it provides is a GAME MODE that allows people who like QUICK things to do, something they don’t have to spend hours preparing for. It also gives people who have lots of time on their hands waiting for those moments of terror some quick things to do.

Imagine mining in a belt with friends and a protective CAP - while you are controlling a ship attacking other miners across the cluster, lol. OR that never to be cursed enough guy next to you - who is always mining the same rocks you do.

I am not describing a fully fleshed out Feature… Rather it is a ‘concept’ … Basically — **Player Controlled NPCs… ** how it is implemented? is Yet To Be Determined.

I do not like this idea.

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