New to PI


(Sharika) #1

Since I can log in multiple times a week or be on fleets 24/7 I only have time to do something more passive, so I started reading into PI, now…is it worth to do it in high sec near Jita since its the biggest market? or you guys recommend at least a .4 low sec system for max yield? need advice on this please thank you.


(Elliath Will) #2

I guess everyone will tell you that the best place for PI is in Null Sec or wormholes. High sec has worse planets and many/all of them are already farmed.
Doing anything near Jita will have added difficulty because many people roam around.


(Do Little) #3

I configure my PI colonies to make Tier 2 products that I use for T2 manufacturing. In Nullsec, with level 5 skills, I was averaging about 2000 units of P2/planet/week. Export taxes will vary by alliance - I was paying 3%.

Highsec yield is about half that - 1000 units of P2/planet/week on average and the taxes are higher, I’m paying 8%-10% export tax with Customs Code Expertise skill at level 5. My colonies are at least 6 jumps from the closest trade hub.

The resources are shared by all players who establish colonies on a planet so you’ll do best to stay away from densely populated areas.


(Mevatla Vekraspek) #4

Forget hisec, high POCO taxes and low ressources planets. Lowsec is good if you can fly DST’s, NPC nullsec is better but you’ll need a jump freighter to get you stuff back in hisec (or Black Frog Logistics but their prices went up lately).


(Oreb Wing) #5

Epithal is the king of PI. Have one in the system you use for all the exports and use a DST if it makes you feel safer getting it out of lowsec. Only do null PI if you have access to good freighter pilots that don’t want to go back to highsec empty, imo.

There are a ton of good quiet lowsec systems no one will bother you in on your pick up circuits. Taxes are low, but I recommend extractor planets p0->p1 and a set of factory planets you feed with all the p1. Good luck.


(Jacqueline Symvane) #6

Don’t bother with highsec PI.

Do lowsec or, if you join a powerbloc - nullsec.
Lowsec can be hard and fiddly to maximize the outputs on, though. In Nullsec I’ve never had issues in reaching the optimum production.

In lowsec (depending on what and how you produce), III skills are going to give you in the ballpark of about 10m a day per character (4 stations). IV skills are going to up that to 15 mil. I never bothered to level to V, that takes a while. Leveling two alts to IV will take less time and yield more input that leveling one to V.

As for the setup, don’t bother with P0 or P1 on a single planet. Product takes too much space. Do P2, if you want to go for P3 or P4, do that on a separate superplanet.

On III skills you can drop two extractors with 2-3 heads each (1 for each material), one launchpad, four P1 processors (2 for each material), two P2 processors. To keep maxed production you need to mine 12k per extractor per hour (average), so reach a just a bit above that (more is not ideal, as, for example, 16k yield will clutter your launchpad with hard to transport and sell P0 trash worth not that much.

IV skills can do two extractors at 3-4 heads each, 6 P1 processors (3 for each material), 3 P2 processors. Needs 18k resources per extractor/hr average.

Keeping yield close to 12k and 18k respectively will allow you to collect the stuff no more than once every two weeks or even less.

I usually then transport the P2 to a assembly superplanet for P3.

P.S.

You don’t need DSTs or other stupid crap for transporting the commodities. I did PI in a FW lowsec system for weeks with an Epithal and didnt die once. Just a little care, a well picked system and scouting and you’re good.


(Black Pedro) #7

I would say don’t bother with extraction PI in highsec. However, if you can find a low tax planet, you could make a factory planet to make the higher-tier PI goods buying the input from trade hubs.

The extra highsec tax may make this unprofitable - I haven’t run the numbers in years - but if you aren’t extracting the base materials, the poor yield of highsec planets doesn’t matter.


(Oreb Wing) #8

Been doing PI in lowsec since Taranis. Can tell you p0 to p2 on sinker single planet will have poor yields and/or multiple relocations within a year.


(Jacqueline Symvane) #9

That doesnt make any sense. How does extracting more P0 solve a relocation problem?

If you produce P1 stuff, you need to rearrange and haul your stuff daily. This becomes time inefficient for one character, let alone 12 on 4 accounts. I can’t eve fathom what a bitch moving P0 between planets would be. It’s just not worth the time.

I’m not sure how you produce stuff, but I have a feeling that your way is actually extremely inefficient.

Just go get the numbers right, I do 24k/h of P0 per III skill planet, amounting to 96k P0 resources per character, 180k P0 per IV skill character, all of which is perfectly reprocessed to P2 and then perfectly to P3 on a single different planet. What are your magnificent yields that outperform these?


(Oreb Wing) #10

How much p3 are you producing every week? That’s the number that counts.


(Oreb Wing) #11

I already know my method is more efficient than yours. Your system has what mine doesn’t: wasted pg in long links.


(Oreb Wing) #12

Keep in mind that I’m talking about low sec PI here.


(Lena Crews) #13

I would avoid high sec.

The extra tax is prohibitive. Low sec PI is not hard… especially if you’re in a system that borders highsec. You can manage everything from a NPC station and you only have to be at risk when you retrieve PI goop (or add goop if you’re running a factory planet.

If you run out of a secondary hub (like Amarr) instead of Jita… ganking your epithal taking the stuff to market isn’t even a big worry. Don’t autopilot it with 300-400m worth of stuff in your hold… but I’ve never seen an issue. The only worry is the time retrieving the stuff from lowsec.


(Lena Crews) #14

You produce more stuff for hour of PI being run. The problem is you’re spending a lot of manual effort moving P0 (or even P1) around. The “most efficient” way to do PI is to only run 1-hour cyles and constantly restart them every hour on the hour. That would produce the most yield.

But it’s 100% manual. It would be a stupid way to run things.

I started P0-P1. But I was having to haul stuff away CONSTANTLY. Now I do P0-P2 on each planet. The loss in income is small. The decrease in time maintaining PI is huge.

It’s also why I sell to my corp’s buyback at 90% of Jita buy. yes, I’m losing potential isk… but I don’t have to spend time hauling. The only PI hauling I do is from the POCO’s to the in-system citadels.


(Jacqueline Symvane) #15

Your claims are about as worth as warm dogshit on a couch.

I’ll give you hard and precise numbers for IV skills (I dont do V).
A single planet gets 18k/h per extractor. As close as possible to that. On some planets I could pull 24k/h and more, but that fills storage with useless, high volume junk, which I can’t even afford to reprocess to P1 due to powergrid limitations.

Each planet has two extractors. That’s 36k/h. Or 864k/day. Or 6048k/week.
1xP1 cycle needs 3k and lasts 30 minutes. That’s 6k an hour.

6xP1 processors eat up the 36k/h and give P1 240/h or 120/h per resource.

3xP2 processors make those 240 into P2 30/h.

So that’s 30 P2 stuff per hour per planet on IV skill character.

5 planets; that’s P2 150/h.
Or P2 3600/day.
Or P2 25200/week.

One character. IV skills. 25200 P2 stuff a week.

Best part? I reset timers once a day (takes about 5 minutes total) and harvest them once every two weeks (takes about 30 minutes).

How much stuff do you get? And don’t forget to mention what ridiculous amounts of time you waste by manually transporting the junk around.

Yeah, your method is most definitely autistic.


(Oreb Wing) #16

I don’t touch my extractors every day. That’s autistic, to use your own word.

I set it to a 3 day pull and leave it, because I have better things to do with my time.

If your numbers are for lowsec, maybe you can be truthful and tell us how long you can maintain those numbers without relocating the entire setup to a new location and spend your wasted time looking for a good spot between two different resources. If you do two separate locations, that is, again, inefficient, as you cannot share storage space. Why, because you are restrained by the simple fact that you need the two resources. I don’t.

My method IS more efficient with power and cpu across the board. It’s science, not opinion. I don’t need long links for anything, as my setup is practically on top of the most concentrated pool(s) within the extractors reach.

I use both a silo AND a launch pad in each extractor planet. As p1 fills up the launcher, I transfer 20k to the silo and borrow space. Takes me less than 3 minutes to do this for 6 planets. Add 20 seconds if I have to refresh the cycle. Done. Didn’t even have to undock and who gives a flying **** if a little p0 is wasted. My time isn’t.

When I pull from the planets, I do the transfer from the silo back to the launcher and export twice, because the pull is too great for the launcher to handle. I can do this in warp without having to sit around waiting at the poco or in a safe spot cloaked. As soon as I exit warp I’m aligning to enter warp for the next planet. I memorize where each planet is, so I can pick up the star poco’s first, then any that are remote from each other. Because I value my time.

My p2 factory planet has 22 advanced processing facilities churning 24/7. That’s all I need. You do the math. Then realize that I have a p3 factory planet pumping 6 facilities 24/7 of Robotics as well and enjoy sitting next to whatever it is you put on your own couch.


(Jacqueline Symvane) #17

Do you have skills at V? If my math is right, I could do 24 at V. All with less effort, less hauling. You keep insisting your method is better, but you give no concrete numbers and what I gather is mine yield more.

I dont do lowsec anymore. Null only.


(Oreb Wing) #18

Your pull is obviously going to be much higher, ye? You’re in null. That’s how it is. As for the factory planet, all my layouts are designed around convenience and speed. This is my p2 factory planet, if the image link takes.


(Oreb Wing) #19

You see that I throw product into two launchers, one of each on the bottom, and just export it from The top. Easy. Fast. I don’t mind if I’m losing two by not using silos.


(Lena Crews) #20

So it sounds like you are running P0->P1 on your extraction planet (not just P0 extraction which sounded like what you were saying).

The problem I had with doing P0->P1 was simply the number of times I had to pull crap out of the planets. Then you have to shuttle it to your P2 factory planets… then another shuttle to your P3 factory planets.

I used to run P0->P1 then factory planets going P1->P3. When I switched to P0->P2… my time investment in PI (of which hauling stuff between planets is included) was HALVED. My income dropped by about 20%.

That is a more efficient setup in terms of the isk I get out of my time investment. It’s less efficient in terms of the isk earned out of each planet. It all depends on what you are looking to prioritize. PI for me is supposed to be “semi-passive”. I emphasize as much of the passive part as I can while still getting a solid isk return.