[newbro experience] some observations : career agents

Warning ! Walls of text incoming ! Not for the faint of eyes !

I observed a few newbros start the game, so I have a few observations.
This post is about career agents.

I think newbros doing the careers agent is great. However I have a few points that could be adressed

Exploration

People just won’t read a wall of text that may or may not be useful later.
The missions text should focus only on what the player will experience and the mechanisms required to achieve that goal.

What’s more, missions should be longer, typically by requiring to do the same thing twice. Those mechanisms need to be understood well, not “barely touched”. So warp to anomaly should require TWO proof of discovery ; hack a relic site should require TWO items.

The data and gas missions are useless. Group the gas mission with the anomaly one (which incidentally would not require to be done twice), and spawn no-damage enemy in the gas, so players know that gas can have rats. Make more rats spawn with a 1 min delay, in the distance, with little damage, so players know that gas site can kill them if they are not aware. This mission (part2) should be done in a 5mn corvette, so give a civilian one and tell the player they can die in that tutorial mission, and therefore should use the free corvette.

Basically that mission (part 2) would become :

This mission teaches you how to use your probe scanner to warp to anomalies.
Anomalies are activity sites which you can warp to.
Since this mission involves travel, you are granted a free microwarpdrive.
<style=“warning”>In the second part, you can be killed by pirats. You are advised to use the free corvette, which you can request for free in any station</style=warning>

  1. Open your probe scanner (alt p), find a basic tutorial anomaly to warp to it, navigate the gates to loot the item in the last pocket.
  2. Then in your probe scanner, warp to a “gas tutorial anomaly”, avoid the pirats, loot the item, and warp off to avoid the new rats.
  3. Give me the two items as a proof of your success.

granted : civilian 5mn
request : proof of discovery basic site ; proof of discovery gas site

No more text in the middle.

Last mission (part 5, ATM gas) would become a mission to change your overview. Speaking of which,

Overview

Default overview should be a specific “tutorial overview”, with visibility for ONLY the items used in the mission and those important :

  • all rats and ships, to have danger awareness
  • stations, since you need to warp to them
  • no stargate since you can use your route / next item to jump
  • basic ore required for the missions only. Not asteroid belt, not the other ores
  • acceleration gates of course
  • no need for planets, pos, structures

The last mission of the exploration career should require the player to warp to a specific site, which contains several elements (with worthless value of course, like a corvette, a 0 isk no damage idle rat, facpo ships, concord ship, an empty can, one containing a carbon, decoration minerals, a diamond rat, a fob, …), and then change its “tutorial overview” to another overview (general ?) and then approach each item with a small description of what they are/do that appear once “approach” order is performed.
All the items here should have the prefix “FAKE” in their name(actually this should be the case for all entities in the tutorials), not be killable, etc.

Filaments

They should have their own exploration mission. The player is given a noise or signal needlejack, told to warp to a safe, set safety to yellow, fleet himself, get yeeted, then exit ship and self pod to get back to station.

  1. check that player is in station (dock in it otherwise) and make him change home station to there (will fail most of the case : tell him to do that nevertheless)
  2. check that player is in corvette and no implants, only filament in cargo
  3. check that safety is yellow (not red)
  4. check that player is at target beacon
  5. check that player is in fleet and everybody close. Tell him to create new fleet otherwise.
  6. consume filament
  7. exit ship
  8. self destruct pod.

text :

A SoE team brought us a piece of dangerous items. We tried them on our ships but they all disappeared.
Since you are a capsuleer, I think this could be tested on you. Wherever you are going, I want you to suicide to get the freshest data.
<style=“warning”>You will die. The mission requires you to be in an empty pod, have your home station here, and use a free corvette</style=“warning”>

Take the provided filament, warp to beacon, and yeet yourself. Then come back as fast as possible (self destruct is mandatory).

Maybe do the same for abyssal filament ?

SoF

IMO the combat parts should be split in 2 : combat mechanism and team mechanism. The SoF should focus on fleet/corporation concepts. This last part includes:

  • creating and leaving a fleet, fleet warp.
  • fleet roles : logis, tackle, boost, all in the same mission (several rooms)
  • looking at corporations (including tax rate) , explanation that most activities can be done without being in same corporation
  • creating and leaving your own corporation (for free… is an issue)
  • joining and leaving FW (including losing your own ship to player in LS or HS)
  • the importance of alts

Industry

Only give building missions, no extraction mission. Don’t send people to mine for the sad “industry” excuse.
There is enough to understand between acquiring BPO, creating copies, invention, BP chains…

Make seeded BPO sold in the starter stations (fake part BP, fake item BP). Add faction and T2 BP and item
Fake part BP needs 1 trit to manufacture, fake item BP needs 1 fake part to build, and fake item II BP needs 1 fake item and 1 fake part to build. (“tutorial” instead of “fake” ?)
no datacore to invent fake item II BP (or a decoration datacore if already exists, provided by the agent. I prefer none)

Only the faction BPC is granted by agent. The two BPO needs to be purchased, the BPC needs to be copied, the T2 BPC needs to be invented.
Maybe make the faction BPC acquired from local LP store ? For an item solely provided by the agent.

All the activity times are set to 10s.

Small text every time about the specific activity you are doing. When manufacturing, for T1 an explanation that meta 0 is the base line, for T2 an explanation that they usually have better stats but also are harder to fit, and for faction an explanation that they are usually as good as T2 but with easy fit.

No point talking about storyline, deadspace, officer modules. However mutations could be interesting, with fake mutator.

There is a million and one things to learn in playing EVE, and in classic EVE fashion the players have a million and two which they believe to be important.

I am of the belief we need less of the tutorials and NPE hand holding and trying to explain everything, and more to pointing new players into player corps, for players to help players.

This should be placed in the Features and Ideas section.

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Man I teach newbro a lot, but there’s only so much I can do.

Today I was guiding a newbro through WH to make his first 100M , he did not complete the career agents because not interesting. Helped him look at the WH to find class, activity, mass, learn BM, made his locations folders to know the closest hub, helped him refit his ship, etc… He did not like to have to press the V key to dscan, rather click on the button … So I had to explain him how to use the V key to dscan a specific target, looking at anomalies, and then he understood and started trying to use V.

Yesterday I guided a newbro to do the career agents because he had a hard time doing them. Taught him about the other career agents, how the game can be played and why he does not need to do all The 3 sets of career agents for the 4 empires.

The day before I guided a newbro doing filament exploration after he had successfuly done the career agents. I had to bring him in pochven three times after using filaments so he could learn how to use dscan, the map to find potential interesting systems, and to use proximity/glorification after traveling through pochven using pings on gates. He called me today to tell me he could reimburse me the few 10s of M I gave him in ship so he could learn the rope alone, saying he had made over 200M in a few trips, and that he’s talked to a corporation after my advice, also he’s been helping other players (I told him to do so rather than repay me).

A few days before I guided a newbro doing L3s, after he lost his brutix . Nowhere in the game does it tell you how to be aligned, nor does it tell you that large guns can’t handle small enemies, and it’s better to warp off when you feel overwhelmed. Also some people take a very long time to do things.

I also met other newbros who were invited in parasite corporations (the one who send mass invites and don’t care about the players after that) and helped them acquire a goal, and stop mining to resell in local to those same people who invited them.

The tutorials are here to help newbro learn at their own pace the important parts of the game.
I’m not here to judge them, but to help them, and find out how the game could help them more. Hence this post.

You can’t fix stupid.

How did so many players learn the game well when it was so much harder to learn? Why can’t new players make that same kind of an effort? Meh…

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If stefnia knows anything about eve or ccp, they should know that ccp has had the belief that the players learn the majority about this game

Some moron flagged this, and I can’t read it. Please contact me in game as I am willing to at least listen to another point of view. We don’t have to agree, but I want no points of either side misunderstand.

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One of the worst parts about these “new” forum i wish you could choose to unhide them at least.

As to the OP i honestly think the tutorial was better when you just spawned in being attacked by rats and then were cut loose.

Career agents were just an optional 5-10 missions each that the community really only pointed you towards for the rewards.

It was clear to new players that you needed to get help from other players not the system.

It sounds counter intuitive but it was honestly less overwhelming and lead to a much more positive first few months. Rather than spending hours reading text only to find out a lot of it was wrong, outdated, or bad form.

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There is plenty of YouTube content out there now that no one who makes any kind of effort to actually learn the game, will have a hard time of it.

it was not. A tutorial is here to help you understand the game. If it teaches you nothing, it’s a bad tutorial.

They still are.

And THAT is the bad part. If your game requires other people to explain the basics, then its design is very bad. That’s literally what game design is about.

Because you think other player teaching can not be wrong, outdated, or bad at teaching ?
Are you saying that I am always right, always up to date, never tired to explain, and always in a perfect tone that people can understand ?

That’s cute. <3

That’s wrong. People who want to play the game want to learn to play, they don’t want to watch vids.
What’s more those vids can be

I watched a guy try to fit a venture from a vid. He was trying to search for modules that don’t exist anymore. I told him, and he was keeping asking me “where are they”. I think he thought this was an official vid.
It was a pain watching him search each module one by one instead of having a fit to import.

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There really ought to be a ‘no loss’ training area where noobs, or indeed anyone, can just duke it out and try stuff out. I think the single biggest problem for noobs is the risk averseness that comes from loss if one tries anything out and it all goes pear shaped.

We had this for a long time with sisi it didn’t really help and actually lead to many players only playing on sisi.

I agree about the last part, but I don’t think no loss is good.

As I wrote above, I helped newbros doing make their first B in a week with exploration, this means to give them 5× 2M heron (including the filaments) so they can try a few things, including dying in perimeter site :laughing: , failing a covert research site :laughing: ², warping straight to a bubble in goon space :exploding_head: , warping straight to gate in ahbazon :exploding_head: ², or using auto pilot to move their 200M of loot in jita and shot by a nade :smiley: (I still think that AP is a bad design and that docking radius being lower than warp exit radius is another one)

Losing is part of the game, and required for the thrill, IMO the issue is more the lack of vision of themselves fulfilling their goal that stops them. That’s why I added the part about filaments.