Valued by whom?
–Curious Gadget
The better to launder real money with, eh?
Then what are you “mining”? Veldsapar?
–Gadget does the wash on Sundays
Carry on thinking people will get away with crypto crime Record seizure of 5 Billion Stolen Crypto assets
These folks got caught trying to launder the stolen crypto,
It loots like all unauthorized transactions will be reversed and sent to their rightful owners.
You do keep good records of who buys your “mining” time, dontcha?
–Gadget trains accounting to level 4
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No I don’t, If I’m mining Ethereum Classic then it will be someone who has commissioned my miner to mine it. Do you keep good records of who created your physical money in your wallet?
Of course I keep records of where my money comes from or goes to - regardless of a physical or electronic transaction.
Bad things generally happen to those who don’t.
–Gadget the Wallet Ninja
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A lot of different people including myself. It’s why I make bitcoin, so I can cash out and do things like buy groceries and pay for bills.
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I’m not sure what these bad things you speak of are, Ethereum is a legal digital currency if people decide to use it for a transaction of any sort then a network fee is attached. part of a miners payment includes the transaction fees from people using the network.
Since the whole entire point of a blockchain is to actually be a virtual system that only exists in the vram of a gpu, i’m not sure why you are surprised that anyone can commission miners or mine themselves to support a distributed systems transactions.
The whole point is to get away from the central bank model with a handful of rich people controlling it.
Sorry, I’m still in shock as to why I’m being asked what value a node has in a system that was purposely designed to be a distributed one.
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Then you accept you are working for the scam industry.
Something that does not generate value, that expect benefit solely from speculation, IS a scam, whatever the convoluted mechanism are.
That’s the point you’ve been dodging all around : it IS a greater fool. You avoid it all the time so now it’s clear you are dishonest and you know you are participating in a scam.
There is no “free benefit”, whatever the techno ■■■■■■■■ is (quantum energy, N. Tesla shenanigan, etc) . You can work your A$$ off, if you are not producing value but people are convinced to invest in it for “it will go to the moon” later, then by definition you are scamming.
If you want a real way to make money, I found one last year : I quit smoking. 10 cigs a day, find out the benefit in a year ? And it’s more passive than your way.
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On the Matter of Forks
You say forks are a good thing. Let me pose this situation to you.
- I am a small business owner that is accepting crypto as payment.
- I have 2 weeks worth of revenue on the chain.
- Some major scam/hack happens, which impacts major stakeholders, the chain gets rolled back a week and some people create a fork (as in the case of the first DAO and Etherium splitting into Etherium and Etherium Classic).
- I now have 2 weeks revenue on Etherium Classic, and 1 weeks revenue on Etherium.
Now, my questions for you are:
- Where is my money? I mean, I have all my payments on Etherium Classic, but EC is only 20% the value of Etherium (at the time of the split), where I am missing half of my payments.
- So, what do I do? How do I proceed? Even if I am able to convert all of my Etherium and Etherium classic to dollars, I still lost 30% of my revenue for that 2 week period. It just poofed off into the ether.
- How do I get my money from my customers? Not only do I have to go through the effort of rebilling all of them, but what happens when customers tell me that they already paid me, and that they aren’t going to pay me again. Do I then take them to small claims court? Now, instead of working, I’m dealing with billing and legal issues. And, if that wasn’t bad enough, they actually have a digital receipt saying that they did, in fact, pay me thanks to the Etherium Classic blockchain.
And this is just one of the reasons people say crypto sucks as a currency. You know what I’m saying? This is just one of the reasons.
Not only have you failed to convince me, but the responses that I’ve been getting from supporters (here and elsewhere) have only served to strengthen my belief that crypto is a scam. I mean, I keep bringing up my concerns, and most of the responses can basically be distilled into one of two categories:
- Current socioeconomic systems suck.
- The little guy benefits from this.
Well, proving that the current socioeconomic system sucks doesn’t prove that crypto doesn’t. And MLM’s make all sorts of pie-in-the-sky claims about how much money people are going to make, and how it’s going to change their lives (and crap like their herba-life tea can cure cancer) -but that doesn’t make it true. Con artists make false claims all the time. Thus, it is imperative that we interrogate the validity of claims. And what I find when trying to do so, doesn’t look good.
Like I said, I don’t think you’re a con artists -I think you’re someone who wants to believe. You are financially and emotionally invested in crypto (i.e. you said that the world is changing, and that you’re proud to be a part of it). Hell I get it. Like I said, I had slightly positive feelings toward crypto before this. I had big concerns about the environmental impact (I do believe in climate change, and fear that we are barreling towards an apocalypse of our own making), but I loved a lot of the claims being made. Subverting the dominant paradigm, financial security, empowering the little guy, a powerful new tool in the fight against censorship - I mean, this is good stuff, right? Well, the problem is, is that there are some serious holes in these claims, and the people that have been trying to defend them seem to be working backwards.
One of the principles the U.S. legal system is based on is stare decisis, or precedent. It means that, unless there are sufficient circumstances to distinguish one case from another, a judge should render a decision that is consistent with previous decisions. Sounds good, right? Well, how do you predict how a supreme court judge will decide? Well, if your answer was to go digging through case law, you’d be wasting your time. The easiest and simplest way is to look at the political party of the president who appointed a justice. And, if you want a more accurate estimate, and are willing to put in a little more effort, you look not at all case law, but on the past decisions and opinions of that particular justice. This is one of the biggest criticisms of the Supreme Court -it’s that they do not go looking at case law, and then render a decision that is consistent with what they found. Instead, they start with the decision that they want to make, and then go looking for the precedent that supports it. In other words, they are working backwards. They start with the conclusion, and then go looking for the evidence. And these are ostensibly some of the most intelligent, most educated, least biased minds that our country produces.
I listen to the arguments for crypto, and I see people working backwards. They are financially and emotionally invested in the promise of crypto. So, they go looking for the evidence that supports it’s promises, and avoid the stuff that points to it all being a greater fool scam.
Oh, and I wanted to mention this and forgot. So, I’ll shoehorn it in here. Yes, you can make money from a scam. As I said before, there are people (besides the scam creator) that make money from MLM’s. You can also make money from Ponzi schemes if you get out at the right time. And, of course, everyone will think that they’re making money for at least a little while. In fact, I’m willing to bet that people in the future will also point to crypto as proof that the ability for some people to make money doesn’t prove that something isn’t a scam.
Anyway, I’ll keep reading what gets posted to this thread, and will try to keep an open mind. But I have to tell, the counterarguments that I’ve been hearing aren’t convincing me that crypto isn’t a scam. In fact, I feel like I’m listening to an MLM pitch.
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You crack me up dude.
-Amused Shipwreck
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Well, the person who would like to legally purchase goods or services privately has already put a value on their anonymity, The do not need any amount of convincing they just log on to a currency exchange and buy their digital currency with physical cash.
Why am I a con artist for having a good understanding of what’s going on and providing a platform in the form of a node used to confirm transactions for crypto?
Is the random person who wants private transactions also a con artist?
Is the retailer who sold me the hardware a con artist?
Is the person who invests in this crypto a con artist?
Why am I the only con artist in this chain and no one else?
I don’t think anyone with a sane and logical mind would agree that a node on a network purposely designed to be distributed doesn’t add any value to the network.
FYI, it is not a scam for folks to want private finance and transactions, it’s not a scam for someone to provide it, and it’s not a scam for someone to help maintain the network. It’s also not a scam for someone to invest money in a good idea and hope for a return.
I simply don’t see what you see. I have given the best answers I possibly can to your illogical questions and I am not dodging anything. You have a belief that crypto is a scam, you ignore the fact people are crying out for a way to remain anonymous just cos you think promoting your “it’s a scam” narrative is more important than fact and what’s blatantly happening in the world.
I don’t care for narratives, I just care for logical views and opinions based on facts that are apparent and nothing more.
What do you mean the chain gets rolled back a week? Based on what a Blockchain is this can’t happen. Ethereum are one and the same as ETH 2.0 and will be changing to proof of stake where your Ethereum will be invested and you receive a regular yield if you choose to keep it.
When you say major hack what do you mean exactly? It isn’t impossible for an actual blockchain to be hacked since none of the past ledgers can be changed or manipulated, A crypto exchange can be hacked and have their digital currencies stolen, I don’t think this will affect the value of the currency stolen but only the reputation of the currency exchange.
You can’t just create any situation and ask me what can be done, the situation you’re asking me about must first be possible.
Let’s be 100% clear here, I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I a m simply here to talk 100% fact and tell you what I’ve experiencd so that folks like yourself can get a better understanding of what crypto is. I really couldn’t care less if you’re not convinced as it will make no difference to me at all, I enjoy this convo and it is cool to relay some info.
But many of your concerns aren’t realistic which makes it difficult to answer, Your concerns with what’s happening in Ethereum are understandable and yes Ethereum moving over to proof of stake might affect value. But your concern about payments being reversed or disappearing will never happed due to the nature of what a blockchain is, the worst thing that can happen is that you are hacked personally or the value of the currency you have goes down due to something big happening for that currency.
Also I can tell from some of your questions your understanding is limited, all i can say is before you commit to opinion. Find out exactly what a blockchain is, you have an encyclopedia at your fingertips where you can research for hours on any topic.
Also develop an understanding that privacy online has been the top of the news for a long time now, I’m unsure how people can argue with this fact, or argue with the fact that people do actually want privacy online.
Now, why is it so hard for you to understand that the privacy people require will be addressed by people interested in creating something to earn money from? Why do you struggle so badly with the fact people want privacy? Why do you even care that these people will exchange their physical cash for bitcoin or other crypto and then use it private?
Look, are you able to get on the same page as me and understand that there is a huge demand for privacy online and that crypto currencies can assist in supplying this demand?
Nope. What you are talking about is laundering. It’s not legal, by definition it’s made to escape the law.
unrelated. I said you were participating in a scam, and you translate that as con artist. Please use facts, not opinions.
And still. Being a node is not adding value. A wind blower node does not add value by blowing in the wind.
If that idea is not good, it is a scam to pretend it is.
But I get it now : the only value is from laundering. Or escaping taxes. So, doing criminal activities.
Ignorance is a bliss. It makes the veldspar that you mine yourself, free.
You STILL are. Stop dodging the point you idiot !
You still failed to give me value that you were adding - besides speculation (so scam) or laundering (so illegal)
Please get facts, not opinion.
I literally told you before that the blockain is only reliable as long as miners get a benefit from mining. The moment mining becomes too expensive, then the chain can be hacked (at a price).
What Shipwreck is referring to is likely this situation where a software bug was exploited, causing the Etherium hard fork:
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Why do you think I am participating in a scam for having a good understanding of what’s going on and providing a platform in the form of a node used to confirm transactions for crypto?
What use is a “wind blowing node” ? You’re just being silly and avoiding the question because being a man who is well versed on tech like yourself you have a total and full understanding that a node is an integral part of a distributed system.
Stop being silly and accept this point, your question is silly, a node on a distributed network has high value because without it no network would exist in the first place. Put and end to the silly point you are making as you are a grown man.
Well look how much money people have invested in crypto world wide, it runs into trillions. A very large portion of the worlds people do not agree with you.
In your case yes, you don’t seem to want to accept facts: People are crying out for a private currency they can use to remain annonymous. Other people will do something about this in order to earn money. grow up and deal with it.
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You failed to have a full understanding of what you’re even talking about. LOL ask some of your IT buddies if a node on any distributed system intended to be distributed is important and watch them laugh at you.
Excuse me while I jump out of my window and grow wings and start flying around, I have lots of errands to do.
Why is irrelevant, more precisely it’s interpretation, not fact.
The fact is, that adding value when there is none and thus proposing benefit to people based on such nonexistent value is a scam.
Well none. The point I was making is, being a node is not adding value. You claimed that being a node in an infrastructure you add value ; I say this is wrong.
A very large portion of flies eat poop. So you should do the same.
And STILL you are wrong.