Note from retired criminal

Communications Center Crime & Punishment
181

Dear Lord… It was really that easy? Sheesh.

Anyways,

What attracts me to PVP… where to start. Off the top of my head, there are several things.

The Adrenaline Rush. Especially if it is a solo kill, PVP really gets the blood pumping in my veins. I do also enjoy a good, even fight, even if I perish in it. I do also enjoy a good gank, to which sometimes the tears provide me enjoyment, or the loot. Both of which I will expand upon.

The Unpredictability. Unlike PVE, which you can, to an extent, Google everything about (until Lifeblood at least), PVP is not as simple. I don’t mean to diss on the simplicity and usefulness of PVE, but it, for me at least, doesn’t engage me enough cognitively for an extended period. At first, yes, because I need to perhaps adjust my fit, switch drones, or swap ammo. After that though, it just turns into mindless clicking for me. Sometimes it is necessary for standings or sec status, to which I don’t mind doing it.

Continuing with the unpredictable side is how players you kill will react. For some of the newer players (I emphasize SOME), they log out, or ‘rage log’ as it is generically referred to. When that happens I actually feel kind of bad, and sometimes I’ll contract them their loot that dropped and send them a mail, perhaps including how to maybe avoid that again, or at least have fun with it in some way. Other times they may send me hate mail, which I enjoy and is one of the primary purposes of this forum subsection (i.e. tear extraction). The best ones, though, are the ones that compliment you, offer you the courteous ‘gf,’ or convo you to learn what they may have done differently to avoid the same outcome. Yesterday, I experienced every single one of those.

The ISK. While not the most efficient, consistent, or reliable way to make ISK, I enjoy those occasional shiny drops. It has actually been my primary source of income for, I would say, my last 1500 or so PVP kills, if not more. In that time I’ve accumulated a few billion in ISK and assets. Like I said, it isn’t the most efficient, but it is more enjoyable for me than PVE.

The Camaraderie. While many players who do PVE or Carebear stuff join bountiful corps and alliances, and admittedly I don’t know the intricacies of the social interactions there, I just can’t imagine them saying “Hey, how many 'roids you lazed today?” or “Hey, how many rats have you blown up today?” In PVP we (generally speaking) share our killmails, tears, and loot with each other (likely excepting the generic nullsec ‘f1-monkeys,’ to which loot is likely every man for himself). I also find much more value in small-gang and solo pvp because I feel like I actually contributed to the kill in some way. Also, those small groups also create a (usually) tight-knit group of players, which has the potential to take the corp/alliance in any direction they desire. It only takes willpower and agreement.

182

Thanks for your effort, that was a good read for a change. :slight_smile:

From what i’ve experienced in Mining groups in the past it is generally the same. A lot of banter and cracking jokes and talk of life in general. You can group up and/or solo and the same goes for missions i suppose.

PvP or PvE seems mostly about difference in taste and in that sense i have no problem with it.

The problem i do have with PvP in this game is that it can be forced upon you and the tasteless verbal ‘tearpulling’ that seems to belong with it. I’ve seen it up close a number of times and it has nothing to do with friendly banter.

And i also still believe that the game could benefit greatly from a huge PvE upgrade.

There you go, PvP’er learns from PvE’er … history is beeing made here. hehe :wink:

183

While in some cases that is warranted, I also believe that any and every player consents to PVP upon undocking any ship. Even CCP knows, as they’ve been ganked a few times. I think it is nice for those, if they do like ganking or whatever else (I guess what I’ve been doing the last couple days is referred to as ‘lowsec ganking’), to send their victim a mail explaining to them what happened and why (which many, many people, including gankers do). They just focus a lot more on the tears they get because that’s how this niche of gameplay gets content. I’d suggest reading the following topic if you wish to truly understand what the mindset of this small EVE player set is like:

https://forums.eveonline.com/t/good-samaritan-saving-up-for-my-first-super-fax-titan-through-elite-pvp-up-to-93-3b/11179/396

It incorporates aspects of most, if not all, variations of highsec PVP, which, generically speaking, is the majority of the Crime & Punishment subsection. It may take a while to read, but there is lots of texts and even several videos showing how some of the processes happen.

184

I never said that, you’re making things up. I think peoples personal lives should be kept seperate from their gaming in as far as is possible. I don’t think it’s wrong to kill someone in a video game who happens to suffer from depression for example, since i consider that in the game everyone is just pixels and i shouldn’t have to worry about them personally (as long as i play within the rules). In this way i think real life and games should be seperate, but you cannot stretch that to mean that the game world “has nothing common with RL”.

That’s because it is true :slight_smile: We are human after all.

As one example, the human race has become more and more desensitized to violence in general throughout recent history. More of use are exposed to graphic images of violence than ever before due to the advent of the internet and mass communication. More of us than ever before are “playing soldier” in more realistic and graphic ways. This has an effect on everything we do, not to mention all the other ways real life conditions and experiences inevitably affect the characters we choose to play, the decisions we make and the goals we set for ourselves.

You cannot confuse that with my disdain for people who try to actually make definitive links between someone’s playstyle and their personality. They are two different subjects.

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185

Looks like I have to raise the voice for “the other side” here…

As said in another thread, people (including myself) would rate me as a carebear. No skill (ingame or outgame) for PvP, and no inclination to participate on it. Yes, I know, everytime I undock I risk being ganked. But I treat it as same as “everytime I cross the road I risk being run over by a drunk driver”. Fact of life, and one can reduce the risk by looking left and right before undocking. Or crossing the road.

Canflippers may try to warp into my mission - I simply abandon the wrecks and scoop up the MTU which I’m never too far away from, case closed. Or, if I feel really spiteful, I start to blow up my own wrecks as soon as I see the wannabe canflipper approaching them. Never had to go that far, though.

Try as you might with PvP lessons, fittings, whatever. I’m sure I’d never develop the taste for it to voluntarily engage into that sort of thing. Not padding someone’s killmail and denying him the loot that would have been my ship is victory enough for me.

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186

You’re not a carebear. Carebears are irrational people who see themselves as perpetual victims, who can not differentiate between a game and real life, because they lack the cognitive ability of understanding that their feelings are within their own responsibility.

You’re just not interested in PvP. That doesn’t make you a carebear.

187

Dude, seriously, you’re just now discovering the awesomeness of the High Sec carrier that is the Orca? You missed out on all the shenanigans we used to pull with them.

188

I personally have no beef with this. I’ve done pve and I’m not that into it anymore. I was a pve only player for about a year before I lost interest.

However, my argument is that allowing me to play a villain in a relatively constrained and consensual set of mechanics creates a manageable quantity of risk for the pve crowd with enough drama to benefit the game.

I’m sure people don’t like to see me drive away with their ore, but they feel happy when I get caught in a trap and get exploded.

I give them something to watch in local, something to prepare for, and something to remember.

Ultimately, I only cost them what they choose to risk… as they have to shoot first in a can-flipping scenario.

I think war decs are an issue that needed a nerf (maybe only allow 1 per corp at a time, but make them cheap would have been a good solution) but that destroying the highsec PvP community was overkill.

I don’t want to ruin your game… but just to make you consider a risk/reward decision or two when you pve… and accept that there are villains out there who want what is yours.

Ganking, imo, would rapidly dry up because flipping is more fun. The large war dec alliances would also downsize because the fight quality in flipping or small war decs is way better.

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189

I never used an alt… it didn’t seem that useful without an alt.

But I love it.

190

Hmmm…
image

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191

I feel honored to be amongst the C&P elite who have been inducted into Memehood, despite being inducted on grounds of being a bipedal carebear poser.

Thank you for this.

Mo

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192

Hi
That’s PVP. Your a PVP player.
Payer versus Player is not just shooting ships.
The idea that a PVP server is possible, relies on this strange notion that Only shooting things
counts as PVP?

Who does PVP?

The elite PVPer with a great KB ratio might be funding her losses with PVE- she might be losing isk fighting even though she is winning the isk war on paper- because not everything drops.

The trader manipulating markets who just got you to spend your last 1 billion on junk, might make you quit eve without undocking. Or make you quit his markets by 1isking you until you cry on the forums about ‘bots’.

The ‘Carebear’ leader in High-Sec with his mission running corp, never ‘does PVP’ but makes millions from her corp, taking advantage of risk averse noobies he lines his own pockets at their expense.

The ganker, who blew up your barge and said HTFU in local, who was not in this case out for your tears, he’s actually a recruiter and he’s looking for miners with the right attitude , hes learnt shooting them in the face tends to reveal their character.

The high sec CEO, who trains his corp to frustrate and infuriate war deccers leading them a merry dance so they just don’t bother in future, without anyone having to shoot anything, while using diplomacy and relationships to find allies and perhaps.even.negotiate.a.truce… without anyone in corp being a dick in local. Who costs his enemies time and isk, and walks away from the conflict with a reputation for himself and his corp. Without shooting anything.

Its player versus player cause its a sandbox. So you do PVP.
As does the mission bear who wants his PVE server, because all the instanced safe MMOs are doing so well lol, can I post my favourite video?

Special handhold donthitmyImagoodperson server means all actions meaningless, no more heroes LIKE THIS GUY

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193

Responding to the OP, eve has sucked since the retribution patch. Can flipping ftw!

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194

+1, I lack your eloquence, but can appreciate your beautiful words and their truthiness.

195

+1. I also identify as a potato. And, I think your point is well served to a game which has forgotten it.

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196

Sir, as a smacking new noob you elevate my ego…

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197

Eh, right. Guess I have to amend my statement that I do not like PvP as in shooting other player’s ships, or more likely, getting blown up by them. Yes, I do know that whenever I try to sell mission loot on the market, I either do it with direct sale at a great loss or try to undercut other sellers, putting me in direct opposition to them. Or whenever I loot a data/relic site I deprive another player of the chance to have a stab at it. Yep, even that is PvP, and it doesn’t need any shots to be fired.

In addition, mission loot contains warp scramblers and such. Now, come to think of it, what is the use of warp scramblers? NPCs rarely warp away, they usually fight to the death. So yes, I’m aware of selling the warp scramblers exactly to the sort of people I try to stay out of their way when being out in space.

Would I stick to “carebear principles”, I’d simply trash or reprocess warp scramblers and such, but as there are enough of them around for the market to never run dry, I’ll take my piece of the cake - the ISK from the sale -, knowing well enough there there is a chance, however small, that that loot I just sold may be used to shoot me out of my ship.

That’s life in New Eden.

But I digress.

The problem both with canflipping and canbaiting is that whoever does it is usually well-prepared. It relies on the potential victim to be unaware of the consequences of his actions (like, trying to take back the ore would make one prone to attacks, too), but I’m pretty sure people are much better educated right now from the start. First thing a new player hears in Rookie Help is “stay away from yellow cans” nowadays, and even if one considers taking the bait, he can never be sure that he could come out on top.

There are too many variables to consider, like neutral logis butting in, docking and switching ships, and so on and so forth, which makes taking the bait even more of a gamble than simply comparing the own ship and the prospective opponent’s.

One would think the “Challenge to duel” option would be widely used - perhaps it was thought of a replacement to canflipping - but as far as I’ve seen it, it rarely is. A duel would mean a (sort of) fair one-on-one fight. But fights in EvE are rarely fair, or one-on-one… the gang/solo ratio for a greater part of the player base on zkillboard proves it.

198

If you focus on the potential injustice of an actual miner losing his ship because he shot someone in a fit of rage, yes… its crappy. However, that is just a fraction of what was going on in the high-sec PvP community. We were in constant open warfare with each other and conducting a much friendlier form of hijinks than CODE does in the newer mechanics.

The macro view of a miners loss (or the rest of the highsec hijinks) taken in aggregate is “dramatic space opera” which is, for many, the point of the game.

You can’t have a story without an antagonist. My argument is that the current mechanics have eliminated all the antagonists… and killed the opera in highsec.

I think the game needs crime and struggles and betrayal to be interesting. I mean no disrespect if you disagree, and I acknowledge those aren’t nice things. They’re just necessary for the opera to exist.

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199

This.

As someone who doesn’t necessarily want to be a victim of these things, I still very much want them to exist and believe they need to for the health of the game.

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200

I think the health of the game was out the windows a long time ago. Seems to me they started making high sec safer to make the game a bit more interesting for a wider audience.

Maybe they could ask CODE to make a promotion website so peeps can all become really excited about wonderful PvP gang life in space.

Oh wait…

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