Note to dev team on new player quitting strategy

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
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How do you protect new bros from themselves and the older players from being banned?

I thought id make this thread after i saw a older player got banned for killing someone, and TBH. its kinda scarey. Before i start this i just want to point out im not new, nor a carebear. I like pvp and, I like things the way they are, i like seeing the chaos in high sec, ganking etc, and everything else. I like the risk vs reward and content, even when i get ganked myself. sure its a bitter pill,… But not everyone is like me and kids these days quit easy and want everything easy. so…

also another reason i wanted to post this was because;
I have been seeing loads of convos on various sites like youtube, reddit, discords etc. of new ppl complaining about being ganked. And some videos suggesting this is a large reason to the new player decline. So when i saw CCP recently banning of a legit pvper getting banned for apparent greifing which was bs, i looked at all the vids and footy and ccp really f*ked up here. anyhow, they do make mistakes, like we all do. … erm… mining changes, scarcity, pve nerfs, etc. now price of sub, … are we are tumbling down the rabbit hole to extinction?? i hope not but… neways im not too confident in their decision making and i came up with this idea on system to help new bros. maybe someone has a better idea. maybe the devs can discuss it.

A New Bro safety status option.(safety button) Call it what you like.

But this New Bro Status would simply be an additional status for new accounts ( a 4th button maybe). that makes them un engagable. they also cannot engage, similar function to green status.

how does it work?

-It only works in security status 1.0 - 0.5.
-if the user strays into lower security space 0.4 or lower, it automatically turns off and has a warning before they jump.
-This function should be auto on for all new accounts.and can remain active for the new account up to 3 months. (debatable) how much time is correct here?.
-The new safety status can be turned off by the player. however; how do you deal with gankers using this function to hide behind their crimes?.. well.
-If the new player account committed a crime equal to Criminal Status (not suspect) in highsec then the new bro safety option will turn off automatically and the 3 month timer is automatically forfiet. (or maybe a strike system here, where they could get away with 1 accidental one?. discuss. but this is mainly so that the system cannot be manipulated by gankers and alts trying to use the new system to greif other players.

-if the new bro strays below the 0.5 security status, the option automatically turns off but can be turned back on by the player after he rejoins high sec.
I think its important the turn it back on themselves, in order for them to learn this ‘Protective’ mechanic better.

-when the 3 month timer is reached, the new bro safety status finishes and cannot be turned back on.
-if the new bro joins corp, and corp is in war? then war targets are not affected by the new bro safety status same like now with green and they can be engaged.
-if the new player joins fac war faction? same deal, not affected. opposing fac war players can kill the new bro. but the safety status continues to protect the new bro from everyone else.

I felt this could be easily deployed. has a slim margin for manipulation, the only variables that need to be considered carefully is the timer timeframe, and criminal status forfiet.

Conclusion: thats my idea. please if you have a better idea maybe you can post them here so the devs can take a serious look. or they dont want to, maybe they can reconsider the changes of recent years and take a sober look what they have done here.

Thanks all, o7

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Haha no.

This is EVE where no one is innocent. Newbies already are out of bounds if they are in the starter/career/Epic line systems, with limitations.

There is no issue with any of it, if someone broke the rules they get banned (hopefully). Beyond that anything (outside the above mentioned) goes.

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From what I read… CCP has always been very clear on what they consider harassment. Some groups or people take it a little to far and then suddenly they are surprised when they get banned. Which most likely means they have already been warned in the past. Either way, lets not pretend one side did nothing wrong.

Own what you did and move on. The cries on forums about it is saltier then people crying about ganking.

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I’m not strongly opposed to the notion of additional safety or ‘grace period’ for newbros, but TBH I’ve never seen any supporting evidence to show that it would be a good idea.

Having an artificial environment that works differently than the rest of their EVE life only boots the first disappointment down the road a couple months. That might help (they might be more invested by then) but also might hurt - they’d have had time to build up both a more expensive loss and a false sense of security.

I see many discussions talking about “all the buzz about newbros getting ganked and quitting”, but oddly enough I almost never actually see newbros saying “Hey I joined EVE, played a bit, got ganked and quit”. It seems to be mostly people assuming this happens and talking about “other discussions elsewhere” but it’s rare to see a first-hand post from a newbro on it.

Any time someone proposes a change to a game, the first thing you should ask is “How would a crafty player abuse/exploit/break this?”.

In this case I’d say, I’d grab a new pilot, and use it to haul expensive cargoes around high-sec in perfect safety. I’d use it to barge in on other people’s mining ops or mission/anomaly running. How would it affect wardecs to have most of the corp switch to unengageable pilots?

At any rate, I feel it would be much more effective to teach new pilots that getting shot down is part of what a clone pilot deals with: ships and even bodies are replaceable, what is important is what you know and how well you use it.

It would be better to have an “AIR Mercenary Career” that educates newbies on PvP and getting nuked by other pilots than it would be to swaddle them in invulnerable diapers for a few months.

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Ah, the perennial ‘newbro safety button’. Not in the least bit open to being exploited by the vast majority of new alphas that are not newbros :slight_smile:

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lol, I find this hilarious. I highly doubt most people who quit after getting ganked are going to stick around and proclaim that, especially since the usual reply is some sort of sarcastic smack talk intended to belittle them.

As for the issue of new players quitting after being ganked, only CCP knows for sure and if it is true, they’re definitely not gonna come right out and say that publicly…

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Being in Rookie channel a lot I can’t even remember the last time a newbie talked about being ganked, while actually being ganked. In almost all cases they got killed in low sec, WH or null but state that they were ganked (which makes sense given the normal non-EVE meaning of the word).

It simply doesn’t come up as an actual thing. It’s talked about a lot but more in general or as a caution.

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It’s actually a proven fact that people who are dissatisfied with the results of a service are far more vocal about it than people who are satisfied or neutral. We can certainly agree to disagree about this, since it’s hard to prove an absence either way.

However, I’ve spent a lot of time sitting in Help and Rookie Help, in forums, searching the entire internet for various gaming-related issues, etc. And while I see people refer to “loads of convos” (as in the OP), I never see those ‘convos’ except by “other people” talking about the poor newbros.

It’s rare enough that one of the very few times I saw a new player complaining about it (in starter corp chat), I flew out to the starter system to investigate. That’s the single kill you see on my zkillboard, so I could capture what the griefer was doing and report him.

If there are hordes of these convos going on (and if the situation was frequent you can bet quite a few of the newbies would complain somewhere), then they should be easy to find and link. They aren’t. Nobody ever links them in their discussion of “newbie ganking”.

I’d be very interested if you or the OP or some ganked newbie could link me half a dozen of these “loads” of convos - from EVE forums, from Steam, from Reddit, from gaming reviews, wherever.

But I won’t hold my breath waiting for it.

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Don’t know why you’re including me in that, especially since I’ve never said anything about knowing or hearing any new players make that claim…

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Well this isn’t a “put up or shut up” challenge or anything. I’m fine with a diversity of opinion on the matter. I think it’s a topic that warrants research, but my own searches have come up mostly negative.

It seemed if you were interested enough to respond with a “this is hilarious, I doubt it” post, then you’re probably interested enough to notice such a convo if you ever run across one. If so, I’d hope you’d be kind enough to capture or link it somewhere relevant.

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Yeah, I said I highly doubt that most people who quit due to getting ganked are gonna stick around and proclaim that fact.

That scenario is more likely to happen because they’re probably pissed.

-verses-

Staying in game or coming here to the forums (where a very small percentage of players interact with multiple alts) to post some sad tale of woe which usually get’s mocked and belittled by others.

I would venture to say most of those who do that either just want to start a flame war here in the forums or are looking to get some free ISK in-game…

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CCP have ‘all’ the info, but in fact people with ranks of responsibility in corps can work out quite a lot just from corp info. For example, one of my corp jobs is handing out implants to noobs. In the corp member list I can see exactly who joined and when. I can see if people have not logged in for a month. And overwhelmingly the info I see…if compared to killboard or any other sources…shows that most people who disappear were not ganked. In fact I know of numerous cases of people who were ganked who are still in the corp months later. So one needs to look for some other cause for people leaving…and I’d suggest the main one is just how steep the learning curve is.

There’s also a lot of chat from people who join as Alphas to try out Eve, and are disappointed that they can’t fly a Paladin or use cloak…and they don’t want to pay whatever for Omega. I would say that it the single largest source of disappearances…FAR outweighing gank victims.

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To the OP.
No, just no.
People who like and want to play this game will stay, regardless of whatever happens.
They will accept the fact that getting ripped in a mining ship or corvette is going to happen by people looking for easy kills. It pads the killboard to feed thier ego.

Getting killed in a fight by a “legit” pvp player in a fight between combat ships will happen to them too if they are learning pvp.

I lost a Porpoise and a Hurricane the other day. One in lowsec on a very risky belt of ore when “I KNEW” there were bad guys around, looking for miners. Far from “carebear” mind you.

The Hurricane I lost in a badly outnumbered situation trying to helpout a couple corpmates In a true pvp combat situation. I accept that loss too.

Two VERY DIFFERENT situations and different applications on both sides, winner and loser.
To confuse the two is not going to help the real new player understand the difference between true pvp combat, and feeding some easy kills by losing situational awareness, which is exactly what I did.

Every time they undock, the new player engages in some form of pvp, this is EVE and pvp has many different flavors. I am learning what I call pvp now, in combat situations combat ship vs combat ship. I do not view getting killed in a mining ship, or hauler, or corvette as pvp, for it is nothing more than a one sided pre determined outcome, the combat fit ship wins.

There are paople who do nothing but hunt new players and or easy targets, I accept that, but a confused new player may not.
Encouraging new players to join a Corp and learn how to handle the situations differently because they ARE different will help them more in the game than anything else.

To try to extend any further softening of the NPE does not help them, it just prolongs the inevitable and those who were going to leave will leave anyway.

The TRUE new player, not alt toons etc etc, should be placed in a corp or corps based on thier chosen race with a real player leader base to educate them for thier first 30 days, then you have to go either into an NPC corp or join a corp of your own free will, but you have to move on.
How this happens I don’t know, but situational awareness and acceptable responsibility for every decision the new player makes, has to be taught along with all the other stuff.

My 2 cents.

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moved to Player Features & Ideas - EVE Online Forums

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Well, that may be the case for some, but I’d venture to guess mostly there are other motivations involved. For one, salt is one of the most valuable materials in the cluster…
Folks have been playing “shuttle roulette” (pretty much corvette roulette since they became free) for a long time since folks keep putting large values in them. Check out zkill to see how common sneaking high-value cargo around in a shuttle/corvette must be and you’ll quickly see most of popping them is about profit not ego.

I disagree. If they get away, they won, imo.

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Very slim odds.

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