Ok, that point has been well and truly illustrated. Thanks for the discourse.
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You better watch what you say, or theyâll be calling you a radical, a liberal, fanatical, criminal.
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Then youâd be smart enough not to create a corporation without sufficient background knowledge.
Youâd be smart enough not to invest without being aware of all the risks involved.
Itâs either that, or all that cocaine is too much for the ego to handle.
Indeed, there are times, when all the worldâs asleep, the questions run so deep, for such a simple man. Would you please, please tell me what Iâve learned, I know it sounds absurd, but please tell me who I amâŚ
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A social corp for socialising. They always should have neen identical to npc corps aside from the social aspects like a shared killboard, shared name, mail list etc.
Wardecs donât have much to do with structures eitherâŚuntil they did.
Thats because wardecs really didnât have a purpose to begin with, the vast majority of them were just to grief other players, not to further an actual goal, now that wardecs actually have a target and a way to end the war its in a much better place than it used to be, i lost track of the amount of times i got wardecced just because i used to live in jita lol
So yeah the only restriction for corps to avoid wars is to not have access to a structure and the services it supplies, which is all the cost that is really needed, you have a social corp structure now where newbros donât have to worry about random wars
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⌠condensing seventeen years of wardecs, with different periods which arenât comparable at all âŚ
⌠into a single stupid line based only on your own experiences from the worst place one could be in this game: Jita.
And you probably think youâre smart âŚ
⌠and not an idiot.
I guess you missed EVE Vegas 2018 with actual figures demonstrating that 5 groups accounted for 50% of all wardecs in high sec
As a refresher
No but i do think i pay attention to what happens outside of my bubble, something you should probably attempt to do
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And in your silly brain this covers all the wardecs since their implementation.
Thatâs what Iâm complaining about here, because itâs flat-out wrong.
I donât care if thatâs not what you mean to say, but itâs what youâre writing.
I fully understand what happened with wars. I was there for every significant change and knew the people affected.
I also understand why it came to be as it came to be, because I was there, knew and talked to the people affected.
And you?
How did you come to your oh-so-well-informed conclusion?
Wars were a legitimate in-game feature for the masses, until CCP pushed it more towards the wealthy.
And theyâve done that twice, with the second change being far worse than the first one.
Wars were never just about griefing people. CCP made changes which caused wars to absolutely go worse, but the bigger part of their history they werenât just about griefing people. It was about claiming territory and getting rid of competition. It was about teaching bigmouths a lesson. It was about saving new players from asshole CEOs if infiltration wasnât an option. It also was about getting people to experience them in a controlled fashion.
(CEOs talking to CEOs without mentioning this âconferenceâ to their members. I did that. Everyone enjoyed it and Iâve lost gloriously, because thatâs what makes sense when you want serious corporations of people to enjoy the game instead of getting literally destroyed by a single unknown player).
Youâre basing your post on this snapshot of what happened âŚ
⌠a devblog âŚ
⌠without having any actual knowledge or understanding outside of this said devblog âŚ
⌠and you think wars now have a purpose, which is like a spit in the face to all the serious wardeccers who left.
And Iâm the one in a bubble? 
What about all those wars not declared by a âbig playerâ ?
Excuse me, do you remember where youâve posted the wardec analysis youâve created?
You know, the one for which Iâve written the code to download some million killmails for you to crunch through?
Wasnât the outcome of said analysis that basically nothing of significance changed âŚ
⌠with the conclusion that people like Cypherous are just idiots for believing wars somehow improved ?
Thanks!
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They donât need a purpose other than âi want toâ.
Pvp doesnât have a purpose. Mining doesnât have a purpose.
Until an individual comes along and gives it one.
This was a myth, much like the myth that ganking ruins the NPE.
You can have this without a corp wallet or offices.
Notice the lack of the word âgriefâ.
And the latest wardec changes pushed the proportion of decs to be committed by even fewer groups.
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qut naâ HInob
And while weâre KlingoningâŚ
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Debateable, they were still for the most part about attacking players, they rarely actually affected much and were always stupidly easy to just sidestep, that never changed
Oh you mean the change where they require you to actually risk something to declare war on someone? 
Yeah youâre not going to get much sympathy for that
Considering you canât claim high sec it wasnât about claiming territory, it was about bullying someone out of space you had somehow convinced yourself belonged to you when it actually didnât
You mean the lesson where they drop corp for a week until you get bored and then rejoining it like nothing happened? because iâm sure you taught a lot of people that lesson, like i said they were always easy to sidestep and avoid the repercussions, iâve done it numerous times myself
And years of experience having to do the same
Youâre entitled to your opinion i guess
Ahh yes those âseriousâ wardeccers who had nothing better to do but shoot at people in high sec for no real reason, i mean youâre allowed to think they had some gran motive but considering wardecs were always avoidable you rarely caught legitimate targets, even living in null the number of people who tried to waste time deccing us to kill our high sec logistics was hilarious
And i said they now have a target and a goal, for someone who ranted about me not saying what i meant you very clearly didnât actually read it properly, i never claimed wars now have a purpose, but they do have a way for the defenders to do something about the war
Previously there was literally no way for them to end a war which made them pointless in that they were at the mercy of the enemies wallets
There will be some, but not all of the grief wars were perpetrated by 5 corps, they just had the bulk of them
Ad hominem 
They kind of do given how easy they were to inflict on others, they were essentially consequence free because people picked targets they knew couldnât or wouldnât fight back, youâre free to gank them to kill them but that means actually losing something
Citation needed
I still donât see a point in removing those features or locking them behind a structure, are you locked out of a bank account because you donât own a business with a property?
Are you barred from renting a storage locker for the same reason?
No?
Then i see no reason to do the same here, youâre going to need to provide an actual reason as to why you feel it would be a good idea to restrict those features, its not down to me to prove why they shouldnât
Notice the part where only 4% of those wars had a defender getting a single kill, and the kill ratio of 105 attacker kills to every defender kill, tell me that isnât griefing, go on
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This was post-citadels, when these groups had to consolidate in order to be viable. Before that, wars were mostly done by much smaller, independent corporations (like my own), which only in rare cases had more than about a dozen people in them.
Back before citadels, there was a very vibrant mercenary community consisting of dozens of established outfits covering all areas of space. A corporation that got decced could go out and hire protection, and then the deccers would be facing organized resistance, even if their initial targets were incapable of providing it. The âmerc contractsâ channel was one of the most active public channels in the game.
Then the citadel war changes came, and forced the consolidation of high-sec PvP groups into a few major entities. This immediately killed off the mercenary industry, because, first of all, they all consolidated, and second, smaller mercenary groups could no longer exist because the only jobs they could get would require them to fight one of these massive high-sec war cartels, and, well, not everyone is able to field 200 faction battleships. The âmerc contractsâ channel died within a year of this happening.
Also, the citadel update killed off small-scale war conflict in high-sec because any small group initiating wars would be instantly met with the exploitation of the âallyâ system, in which these big cartels send out assistance offers to all wars that they didnât start, just so that they can have more targets to shoot. Which is fair, but the side effect of that is that theyâll almost necessarily siege your station in the process just out of boredom, which is something thatâs impossible to defend against as a small PvP group.
The net effect is that wars have been completely neutered, except for these cartels, which are killing more players than ever because they monopolized the industry. They kill players almost as if theyâre running chicken farms, actually. In fact, I wouldnât be surprised if some operations around hubs and places like Uedama are straight-up automated loot-harvesting traps like a mob grinder construct in Minecraft. A bot like that would take less than 100 lines to code.
How did you kâŚ
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Tbh, actual mercs have been gone for a decade now.
Still, CCP created their own mess by making it more and more difficult to have ânormalâ wars and in doing so forced those players to go to 11.
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The ally system caused severe degrees of consolidation (because of the N+1 solution to all conflict escalation), but citadels delivered the coup de grace.
Oh yes, was just adding a small addendum 
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Why do you think this is a bad thing?
What is claiming territory if not bullying everyone else out of it?
Consequence free? Whoâs fault was that?
Wardecs have always been opt-in. If the defenders are choosing to be wardeccable but canât or wonât fight back, whoâs fault is it really?
Itâs like saying ganking is too profitable. But itâs not the gankers that made you overload your ship.
Exactly.
You made the claim. Back it up.
Not a structure, an office.
If you open a corp office you get access to a corp wallet but become eligible for decs.
This is the level your stooping to? False equivalence and real life comparisons.
Really?
Because the quality of corps is far lower than it was. The economy is suffering and the wardec nerf didnât achieve anything it was supposed to.
Itâs not griefing.
Look up the definition of griefing.
Go on.
And then read CCPâs own words:
War Declarations are a risk that every player corporation has to face and they are under no circumstances considered harassment. Wars in general can be completely avoided by remaining in an NPC corporation.
Do you remember when i posted this:
You are at the âliterally makes â â â â upâ stage.
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Creating a corp for you and other players isnât really enough to count as âopt-inâ because the option is the terrible spam filled NPC corps, you canât genuinely think that someone simply existing in a corp should be reason enough for them to be a target of a wardec, we all knew that was silly even way back then, it was far too low a barrier
You canât claim high sec as your own and you donât need a wardec anywhere else to claim ownership, youâre not bullying them to claim a system youâre bullying them for the sake of it
The people who created a system whereby people could just wardec anyone who had no intention of fighting back, now players have to opt-in by deploying a structure in space
You claimed it was a myth, i would like to see some evidence to back up that claim, iâm not going to provide evidence to back up your claim of a myth
You have still yet to explain why you need an office at all, you donât need an office to open a bank account, you donât need an office to rent a storage unit, your requirement that they need an office to have a corp wallet or to rent what is essentially a storage locker makes no sense, youâve yet to explain why this would be a good change
All it sounds like is you seem to want more targets to grief because the changes to the war system took away your ability to just dec every single barge you come across
Iâm pointing out how little sense your change makes, neither of these features have anything to do with owning office space, and strictly speaking you always have a HQ so you have met the requirements to have a corp account and the ability to rent storage space
Citation needed
The quality of corps isnât something you can actually quantify, is there any actual evidence to claim this is the case? how are you even quantifying âcorp qualityâ because the quality is subjective to its members and owner and not something you as an external party can apply to them
Youâre entitled to your opinion i guess, CCP disagreed with you, hence removing the ability to use it as you had been
I mean i get that you feel you have been in some way robbed of the ability to murder people who canât fight back, but iâve yet to see you present an actual valid reason as to why you should be allowed to do it when players and CPP disagree with you
Which is 100% circumventable by anchoring the structure with a holding corporation, and being able to derive 100% utility from its services, while still remaining war-immune.
The solution wasnât then to take these toxic players and let them be responsible for the NPE. But thatâs what we got.
Thatâs what i mean by the quality of corps is lower. The same players that made npc corps so bad are now spamming recruitment ads and noob systems.
And CCP says âjoin a player corpâ so they accept.
Anyone can claim any system as their own and use any ingame methods they want to enforce that claim.
Thatâs basically how claims work.
Canât prove a negative. The onus is on you.
This is like asking someone to explain why space physics in eve donât work like space physics in real life.
Iâm not a wardeccer. Just like Iâm not a ganker or an afk cloaker.
But i shouldnât be immune to decs.
Naari_Naarian. And the proliferation of invite spamming.
Citation needed.
Edit- the ultimate irony here is that CCP adopted my idea for wardecs more than anyone elses. They just royally â â â â â â up when it came to social corps.