NPC Mining Groups Too Much

NPC’s mining? Dafuq? Since when is this a thing? why are CCP wasting system resources governing bot mining in High sec? surely those system resources would be better utilised elsewhere in the server processes than running bot mining fleets!!! Wait Bot Mining lol CCP is botting ahahahahahahaa hypocrites

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I saw it as creating pve content that holds elements of pvp.

I understand that a pve player can become a pirate or role play as one by attacking the npc retrievers etc for ore cargo. Also running from the white diamond response fleet would be similar escaping from a mining corps members response fleet.

I kind of like that aspect of the mining belts.

NPCs are bots. You want players that are at their keyboard to have to deal with sanctioned Bot Miners, because that is what NPC miner fleets are.

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No, that’s what they feel like to you.
You can solve this problem by just moving to another system.

You’re not entitled to mine in a system, especially if you don’t even have the time to dedicate to EVE Online, regardless of your real world situation.

Either suck it up and realize that you need to change your approach because it’s really silly to expect a game that’s on 24/7 to cater to your specific wants, or get better and stop whining about how it hurts your feelings and is unfair.

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No, that is what they physically are. AI driven ships interacting with the game resources.

Please extrapolate more of my feelings from fact, its like a different kind of salt and I am kind of liking the flavor.

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Been peeking in and out of the forums checking whats new, in one post theres loads of complaints against afk miners, ice bots. no one other than this is pointing out CCP brought in their own bots to strip the asteroid belts, of course some point to sending people to greener grass and saying Anomalies, had a look through 8 systems nothing other than Omber and a small kernite belt, not quite the same as a colossal or whatever spawns in null. now we have Recon trigs popping ventures like a shooting gallery.

I am losing track of CCP’s aim, you give people a venture when starting out and running career agents, pushing them to look to mining as an isk generator, something you could always fall back on, now the casual player is left wondering what to do. Do you think anyone is going invite loads of alphas not knowing if they will play next week or not. people complain about bots, CCP bring in its own bots (silence) CCP then brings in Trig Scouts, its a big jump from career agent to pve against Trigs.

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Nobody else is pointing it out because they recognize that it’s an irretrievably stupid assertion and they don’t feel like sacrificing their credibility for the sake of making a deliberately obtuse argument guaranteed to yield nothing but derision.

The trouble with bots is that they provide an unfair advantage to players and they support RMT activity. NPCs do not.

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The npcs should mine ice as well. Would make it a little more interesting. all ore anomalies should be also a warp in point for npc mining. Its highsec afterall. or just make ore & ice annoms scannable sigs random. little more hustle for those in hs looking for easy isk.

Do you have any proof of these player bots doing RMT?

Also all NPC Mining Fleets, roving Trig gangs, etc are indeed bots. CCP implemented them in High Sec for 2 reasons, none of which is even remotely connected to stopping player bots doing RMT.

  1. CCP is attempting to force players into Low and Null Sec space.
  2. CCP is attempting to force solo players into group play.

Why are CCP forcing players to do things in a sandbox game? That’s not their job. Their job is to provide a sandbox and the players decide what they want to do and how.

Something I think CCP has seriously forgotten over the last 6 years since i last played.

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Supposedly CCP wants more destruction in-game from players.

Basically it’ll get them free advertisement from write-ups in game news/review sites, like the big Alliance Wars use to do. Which will hopefully bring in new players.

For the most part, apparently… :rofl:

You mean aside from it being the centerpiece of pretty much every quarterly security report ever?

While we don’t respond to every individual report of botting or real money trading, they’re all taken 100% seriously, and are thoroughly investigated for credibility.

Multiple reports from different sources also remain incredibly valuable and allow us to cross reference behavior and nail these guys faster.

The main thing we want to emphasize though is that without a demand for RMT – without pilots in EVE buying dirty ISK from these guys, these guys can’t operate.

Do you really want to run with the 200IQ spodbrain argument that people who are selling ISK for real money aren’t also industrializing their operation via automation?

Be sure to report them, then. And all the other NPCs, too!

Explain your rationale in the bot report in detail.

I’m sure they’ll be absolutely blown away by your very clever and unassailable argument and remove… no… ban… these bots at once.

Good thing I never suggested it was in any way connected to stopping player bots doing RMT.

What I said was that, bots, which are colloquially understood within the community to be player automation, yield illicit benefits to a player. NPCs, while sharing the quality of “automation”, are simply part of the game world and are not being operated to provide a player with illicit gains. Thus, reducing the two to a single shared feature and then trying to say, “Look, they’re totally the same!” is a deliberately obtuse, dishonest argument that actively avoids the totality of facts in favor of a position that focuses on a solitary technical similarity.

Which is why most people wouldn’t actually make that argument.

Hmm, let’s see.

This is actual fact, with citation, in direct response to your question, along with a reframing of the question to illustrate how bizarre it is. The association between botting and RMT is such a well-established fact that you may as well have asked for evidence that water is wet, or that it gets dark at night.

And, again, a reframing of the position to illustrate how laughably ridiculous the NPCS = BOTS! argument is. You’re not going to report them as bots, because they’re clearly not.

And this is a direct response to your strawman misrepresentation of what I had previously said, explaining, in exacting detail, the difference between what I had actually previously said and your misrepresentation of what I had said.

first… yes there is proof that Bots are the number 1 suppliers of ISK for RMT services. CCP are able to track isk and assets transferred between characters and also have solid bot detecting and reporting programs and policies.

second: NPC fleets are not there to force people in to Low/nul sec. they were added because people have been asking for more life in space since the beginning of the game. the mining fleets, as i have previously broken down, are easily delt with & can be killed for the ORE they mined.

third: the Trig recon NPCs are part of the invasion expansion and storyline and have not been added to “force people in to low sec”. these are another dynamic that people need to adapt to as part of this invasion, expect that CCP will add more in the future.

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I’ve been an active member of these forums for over 10 years and have seen the threads complaining about bots and RMT. I’ve also seen CCP post all the gigantic amounts of banned ‘Bot Accounts’ due to their ‘War On Bots’. If CCP is so good at detecting and removing bots then why is there still such a big problem of bots in the game? I’ve seen some players post that all this new content, the Blackout, roaming Trig gangs, FOB’s, etc is helping to get rid of bots. Seems mighty convenient.

As for all this new content, I’ve never seen any threads posted asking CCP to add NPC Mining Fleets to mine all the Asteroid Belts dry in High Sec. Same goes for FOB’s / Pirate Strongholds.

The main reason that content was added is because CCP wants more player ships destroyed in the game. They constantly ‘lol’ about how many player ships are being destroyed by these new NPC’s. I don’t care if you think they can be easily dealt with, that’s not the point. The point is nobody asked for that type of content to be added to the game so stop saying players for years have been asking for that type of content.

For a long time players have been asking CCP to add / update new Missions and Exploration sites, some players have even asked that they be more interactive with different completion options available instead of just constantly saving the Damsel from Kruul. Instead of working on that, CCP decided to add new group content.

That’s because for years CCP has been trying to get players in High Sec to form large corps, fleet up and go to war with others. Hell, CCP tried a passive approach to get players to fleet up with Resource Wars and that failed right from the start due to shitty rewards. FOB’s and NPC Mining Fleets weren’t doing it either so now it’s hardball action with roaming Triglavian gangs.

If all this new content is so great then why are log in numbers still dropping?

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in response.

  • it is not that people have asked specify for Mining fleets, more that people have wanted to see the comings and goings of the citizens of the eve universe. weather through actual ships doing things or more lively station exits… CCP addressed this itch by adding mining fleets. keep in mind the there have always been the intra station hauling trains (not seen any of these in a while) you could kill these to for commodities they carried but as they were under sentry protection you would have to be vary picky about your target.

the mining fleets although frustrating to some added a real entity that could interact with the player and influence the choices available to you. “i have previously outlined these choices in my posts above”

  • CCP is always improving thair BOT detection process and adjusting where appropriate. in the same vain the BOT programmers are doing the same. the is the arms race the DEVS and CCP as a publicly trading company are fighting in. .

  • CCP post statistics about player deaths to NPCs because we the players have a vested interest in the data, everyone in eve likes salt in one form or another, weather through PVP and ganking or laughing at each others silly NPC losses. CCP dont just compile these statistics to rub our noses in them and call us noob scrubs.

these metrics also help CCP to judge any given addition and adjust proactively to ensure that the new content is balanced and where appropriate can be countered by the player base.

  • people are able to solo FOBs and mining fleets. the roving triglavian gangs can be seen on D-scan so are avoidable, there are only 2 NPC activities that require you to fleet up, these being incursions & invasions

  • CCP have stated on many occasions that they wish to address the Mission system, however they are working with code that was compiled in 2003/4 and is vary tricky for them to adjust. they have also stated that with the new systems they are using today, that they are getting to a point now where tackling the behemoth that is the mission system is finally an achievable task

  • currently exploration is in a good place, each major pirate faction has a comparable amount of content through the escalations, anomalies & DED sites. there is also WH, both stable and shattered, with benefits to lower end systems C1/3.

People have been screaming for content for years, CCP have answered these calls and introduced some great content fir the avid PVEr and Law nerd. just because you dont like it dose not mean that it is bad.

I have mined from 0.9 - 0.5 and found npc miners all over, a lot of belts almost empty, 2-3 cycles on an asteroid and you have to target the next, I don’t have the skills to attack npc miners, my friend who got me into the game did on the premise they dropped loot crates and skins, I just watched as I had no skills to rep or provide sufficient dps, first it was some cruisers and frigates, then more cruiser and some battleships, to me it seems they spawned more in response to the amount of dps.

I seen youtube where this has been done and as it didn’t go well this time perhaps its changed since people put up the videos, I understand part of this as resource wars, but where are you trying to push people too when they are still skilling up? no one would take a player to low or null if they were as I have seen “not able to sustain their selves” which I take as being able to build/mine/fight.

Someone will say “we take people while their doing career agents” my friend is in a fairly large corp, since the change in the war dec system, they are unable to do anything about people ganking miners, soon as a moon chunk pops, people come to mine, gankers attack with little to worry about 5-8m destroyer wait for cooldown dock and reship, repeat, they own nothing so you cant war dec, if you have protection nothing they can do till its too late, go to the belts, nothing left npc’s took it all, come to a point people just go play something else.

NPC’s by definition are computer controlled, unless you think CCP hired several thousand people just to fly recon trigs into belts, ie bots.
I would say CCP have been disingenuous they know how bots work they could catch them, trouble is if they did and removed all of them player logins would crash, someone who has posted YouTube videos of him booshing drones from rorqs managed to amass a large number of alts, and there are many skill point farmers, CCP walk a fine line between forcing out accounts and keeping enough to remain in profit, keeping new players in and joining is key to keeping the game going, by making that gap between starting and being able to move to different parts of the game difficult by adding NPC miners and now recon trigs makes stepping in to new parts of the game harder.

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FFS…you do not need to “attack” them…

Really sorry I see where I was wrong, let me stop training and start on T3 destroyers right now let me pause the next 4 months of mining skills I was training, nice video and his follow up was even better, sadly when my friend did this his drops were nothing like that or I might have had enough to buy a injector and get into a T3.

Doing things on the test server and then repeating it to make a nice video to post is fine, it seems this game is now full of bitter vets who’s comeback is always “learn to play ******” while anyone thinking of joining is thrown in the fight pit.

Please go and look at zkill and check the Trig kills have a look at the fittings, even many of the barges and the few Orca’s that have been killed are poorly fitted, there is a sharp jump from finishing the career agents and fully exploring the game.

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just using this as a jumping off point :slight_smile:

IMO the issue with NPC miners is that people dont understand them or how they operate within the confines of the AI that they use.

1 - mining fleets will only spawn in or next to systems that contain an industry focused NPC corporation station.
2 - fleets can spawn with between 3 - 13 mining ships (roughly)
3 - the response fleet will be proportionate to the mining ships that spawn (there are edge cases of disproportionate responses)
4 - haulers that spawn to support these fleets will warp periodically from a station to the NPCs (*can spawn a T1 or T2 hull, this is not tied to miner type)
5 - the Response fleet will not escalate further, (FOB mining fleets might to due to the nature of thair spawning)

there are 3 ways to deal with the fleets.

  • the first and least time investment is to move to a new system/belt when you encounter a mining fleet
  • the second is to shoot the mining ships and warp out. you an then warp back after a vary short period and mine away whilst the NPC sits with its combat support in a safe spot.
  • lastly you can deal with the spawn either in the belt (not recommended) or by scanning down the fleets safe and fighting is there .

the last option. is the most time intensive but will net you some Ore, & salvage

  • firstly you shoot the fleet and align out. check Dscan as diamond rat will appear on it. this will give you an idea of what the response fleet is made up of.
  • now warp to station and jump in a scanning ship. combat scan the barges (they have a vary large base scan detection thresh hold. gey your book mark and reship.
  • on landing (i suggest warping at range with a drone boat, gun boats can work 2) target and kill the logistics ships (the fleet will not agro) then move on to tackle (fleet agros now) then Ewar, then DPS.
    leave 1 DPS or Ewar ship alive. NOTE i tend to keep a good range on the DPS ships if they number more than 4 as they can still easily break a good tank.
  • once the support fleet has been neutered, move on to the mining ships and hauler. the funny thing here is that whilst in the safe spot the mining ships and hauler will not move or try to warp even whilst taking damage.
  • when everything is dead go jump in hauler and move the ORE back to your preferred station. if you kill a T2 mining barge then it will have T2 salvage and with luck could net you up to 80mill~ in T2 salvage

i have previously stated this in her.