i agree with this
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english only in this part of the forum… you wanna complain in russian, take it to the russian part of the forum… thanks.
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Sandbox vs Fu*kbox
After unsubscribing from the game, I did take a look at it a few days ago (might have returned).
Then I did look over recent changes, and I am very glad to not invest any more money into a sinking ship.
After some thinking (WHY is this game turning out as it is?), I came to some insight. Here it is:
IF one is playing for fun, they are stay a long time in the game (online)
They would explore new content (and demand it), while step wise building up their strength.
This is also called grinding. After the hard work, a unique reward is expected.
(Helpful player)
As EVE - management sees it:
This player is online a long time = servers cost money
This player is not spending more money, as his work does pay for content and also plex.
= No money for ME.
If one is playing for pleasure, one needs quick satisfaction.
You spends no time online, while wanting the same stuff as the hard working guy next to you (because you are a biXX)
Lets throw money at EVE for ships / standing / expensive equipment.
(Toxic player)
As EVE - management sees it:
This is a player who is online a short time = cheap maintenance.
This players throws real money left and right to get what he/she did not work for.
= Lot of money for ME
How did EVE go wrong?
They have greedy management. “I want a new car now, and screw everyone for it.”
“How do we squeeze the last penny out of gamers?”
Good game:
Work is honored.
- 4 players set up a worm-hole with care for month / years.
It should require a gang of 20 players with each pilot in a capital ships to
to kill it in 3 days of hard work. - Crime is punished. You gank, your toon is banned from that empire.
One would have to spent 3 weeks of hard grinding, to get standing back. - You get rare equipment ONLY through hard work. Not by having a rich suggar daddy.
- PVP requires even more hard work + planning. IF you are good at PVP, you are a king.
Bad game:
- Ganking has no consequence (buy back standing).
- Destroying is much easier than building + holding.
- PVP requires no brain (see THIS change), but a bit of money. Thus, if you play pvp, you also qualify for fortnite.
- Money is generated through skins.
- A game is bad when you get content only through in game transactions.
=> Sug*ar daddy buys you all the good stuff. You only have to spread your cheXks.
As I see it, EVE is a rotten corpse, decaying for a few more month/years until it is shut down.
Could the game be salvaged?
Maybe
How?
Change your management. Especially anyone greedy.
Instead, put DEVs, who like the game, into leading positions.
But, as we all know this is not happening…
…recommendation for DEVs:
- IF you LIKE this game - look for a new job, now.
- IF you work for money - look for a new job in a few months.
- IF you hate this game - watch the fireworks.
As you have proven again.
Enthusiasm and love for a game let it flourish.
Greed kills it very dead.
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The more I read the more I get the impression the change isn’t that bad.
There are both lazy carebears and pvp-ers complaining, so it must be somewhat balanced…
The people who complain that they might now being killed because they don’t have 3 or 4 wcs any more are the ones who do not need a point as the only thing they know is how to click warp button - if they even know that.
I have no point on my astero and killed several explorers because they simply freeze when attacked and do not even try to warp away even if they could
Then you obviously haven’t been reading at all, since one massively outweighs the other.
Well I was thinking it is a big nerf for pvp-ers as catching someone is much harder now, but as the people getting buffed whine just as well…
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I love having nullifier on my explorer, idc about stabilizers lul with <2sec gtfo time. Now I can carry my precious loot through stupid bubble gankers.
I just subbed for 12 months. Thanks.
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How can it be harder when a faction scrambler is just a big “I win” button with no possible counter? You get to cloak up, only pick targets you know you can take, and then tie them down with an infallible god module while sneering at their cowardice for not wanting to fight, with odds that you’ve ensured they have no hope of overcoming anyway?
Or are you the gate camper who now gets to sit back and drink even more beer as you complain about how much work it is to keep your ears open for a sound? The passive death trap is still doing all the work for you, isn’t it? I don’t see them putting activation timers and cool downs on the mobile large warp disruptors…But of course, all those new ships with the nullifiers are going to make campers bubble BOTH sides of a gate. Nevermind that for those ships you’re literally guaranteed a kill, and that you’re now getting more potential kills and more potential loot than ever before…the fact that they’re making you camp both sides in order to get that is unforgivable.
…and you call others lazy? Hunters are the laziest people in New Eden. It’s always more work to create than it is to destroy.
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Hey why did you guys gut warp stab use like this? I had an Epithal stuck in a station, with no fitting services, while fitted with 3 warp stabs. You guys made this change and made it so I couldn’t undock, because I couldn’t unfit modules.
I had to put in tickets to get one of you to remove the modules. Really? Y’all gonna make a greifer-helping, game-breaking change and not even provide an in-game recovery mechanism for any affected players.
BTW, what do greifers get for nerfs? Us miners/industrialists lost all this warp stab ability. So what about griefers? What do they lose in return?
Or is all this one-sided to help griefers out cause they complained too much. Griefing isn’t content also.
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The ‘griefers’ also lose warp core stabilizers on their industrialists and miners.
Or did you think that people who shoot other players do not mine or haul stuff?
Signed, someone who regularly shoots at and also flies Epithals.
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I don’t suppose many people read this thread now, as the dust settles. All the same, here is something I have realised recently: I have a handful of yachts in different regions, for nullsec scouting and as taxis. Now that everything has a limit of 2 warp core stab … and a covops gets the same nullification as a yacht, I can swap my yachts for Helios - same align speed and a bigger cargo hold, 23M ISK for the hull instead of 200M. Yes, the yacht has a much better activation time and reactivation delay but whenever I travel through null, I encounter bubbles at probably no more than 5%-10% of the gates I pass through, so travel time isn’t impacted much and I’m rarely in a hurry.
The 30s activation time of a yacht would allow it to get through bubbles on both sides of a gate but with a covops it is easy enough (as long as you have a good set of gate safes) to warp close to the bubble, amble through it cloaked, flipping invisible birds at any nearby ships, jump the gate, hit the nullifier and zoom off through the second bubble. A sub 3s align fit on each ship gives a sig radius of 150m for the yacht, 58m for the Helios, so the covops has a much better chance of avoiding +3 scrams.
Oh, lets take a look at the price history of yachts on Eve Marketeer … wow!!!
… I’m not at all convinced that this change was fully thought through.
WCS was noobtrap module.
Still is in most cases but at least you cannot completely ruin your ship.
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Catch 22. How can you make gate safes with a ship that needs them in order to make them? Yes, you can use another ship to do recon first, but this isn’t possible with certain roaming/nomadic play styles.
If they were so useless before, then why did so many lazy hunters advocate their nerfing?
It’s true that they were too easy to rely on, and gave people a false sense of security. There was always the possibility of double scrams or multiple foes. But at least there was that dynamic, of there being choice and strategy coming into play. You could choose not to rely on them, and use better situational awareness as an evader, or you could choose to load them up and take your chances. The hunters, also had an agonising fitting dilemma about whether to gimp something for double scrams. It could be a difficult decision on both sides. Sometimes, there were perfectly legitimate uses for WCS that had were not ill-informed or noobish.
Now, a faction scram is just an “I win” button and that’s it. There’s nothing more noobish, or more liable to foster over-reliance, laziness and stagnation in tactics evolution than something that is literally impossible to counter in a fight.
If CCP absolutely insists on continuing this farce with regards to WCS, they should at least balance it out by making warp scramblers increase the decloak cool-down that prevents targeting.
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Yes, it takes time but it isn’t difficult - a nullified cloaky can make them easily enough using the usual methods. If you have to creep through a bubble cloaked (but not nullified) towards a new system, after the jump, warp to 100km from a random celestial (hit the nullifier if necessary), then 100km off the gate you have just been through, repeat the process, on to the next gate. I’m lucky (or maybe just benefitting from years of hard work) in that I have a good set of safes in all the regions I visit. From time to time I go somewhere new, then it’s back to the grind.
I admit that if you are a complete solo nomad, it does cramp your style and eventually you will hit your bookmark limit. New Eden is a big place though. Take a mobile depot and be patient?
Also, I dread to think what effect the forthcoming cloak changes will have - I will need to make a new playlist, maybe mostly Downset to keep me awake while I crawl away from every gate at cloaked velocity, in case I expose myself while I sleep (not guilty m’lud).
Not sure how a mobile depot will help? It doesn’t let you change ships, and as for being patient…well you can’t wait out the campers while cloaked anymore, for reasons that you yourself just outlined. What’s the alternative? Log out? Is that what CCP wants? It does seem so sometimes…
I think it’s perfectly reasonable for things like WCS and nullification to completely and utterly gimp combat ability. Slipperiness should be the preserve of reconnaissance craft, so I’m not completely unsympathetic to complaints about nullified interceptor fleets. But the only reason that became a problem is because of stationary warp bubbles existing to begin with. They were abused in fleet action. Walls of them were put up to prevent fast tackling. The problem is not interceptors, or nullification.
The problem is stationary warp disruptors existing to begin with! The very nature of them runs counter to CCP’s stated aims of making content more accessible to more people, and for that content to be more engaging. But there’s nothing more stagnating, dividing, disempowering, boring and conducive to siege mentality than an overpowered electro-quagmire. They’re why null is dead, and their absence is why Lowsec thrives. The very fact that nullification even exists is because they were a mistake. Interdiction should be ship-based only, and the preserve of the specialised vessels that are dedicated to it.
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I was thinking of strategic cruiser in particular, which can be effectively a ship change but maybe other ships are capable of something similar, I don’t know. I was thinking that while being a nomad, cloaked, you could wander until you found a suitable system, then refit. My nullsec activity is nearly 100% explo and my Loki fleet stays in losec, my limited history in fleet action was long ago so I don’t have your perspective on the issue, though generally I agree with your comments, especially “I think it’s perfectly reasonable for things like WCS and nullification to completely and utterly gimp combat ability. Slipperiness should be the preserve of reconnaissance craft” - that is the essence of a slippery ship, none of which was ever entirely safe against dedicated attack before this change, all of which are now relatively easy targets, depending on what they meet.
As to lowsec thriving then yes, I am certainly more intent on lowsec at the moment but probably only until I can make enough int nullifiers to refit everything. Once that is done, the risk is greater, the opportunities are more because the population is down and the carnivores will be hungry and focussed - oh well.
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- they are lazy
- WCS was used for bot-like gameplay (notice that new WCS have drone penalty)
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The drone penalty - there’s another thing. I now have several explo ships with enough drone bay for fifteen assorted drones (while exploring, ECM, etc) but which can only use two drones at a time - until I refit them for PvP (I’m thinking of Asteros in particular). I have never used a PvP swap fit for any of my Asteros but I always carry the kit, just in case I ever find a pair - but in the meantime, any chance of escaping a gank/black ops cyno drop are diminished to nuffink. I’m not really complaining - I am adjusting to the new regime - but t strikes me that the recent changes have affected so many ships in ways that weren’t considered by CCP.
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