You might be as surprised as we were.
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Haha, okay some newbies with too much ISK and a mindset of ‘bigger is better’ may fly a Nestor before they can fit a T2 relic analyzer.
In general, people won’t. 
I understand that you’re an empire space gate camper by the sounds of it, and that you’re focusing exclusively on that form of “hunting”. It’s funny that you would call it that really, since it’s the equivalent of grizzly bears at a river during the salmon run, just sitting there with their mouths open. But not every hunter is an empire space gate camper, and not every prey is an empire space slowboat hauler. What about wormhole hunters?
So, I understand that you’re conveniently leaving out the existence of covops cloaks on hunting ships, which negate every single problem you just mentioned, barring prey using cloak mwd trick. And even then, the covops only fails to negate the problem at a gate. In null there are bubbles for that, and in empire space, tough, it’s supposed to be hard/near impossible where there is law and order. I keep hearing hunters say there should be less reward for less effort, but it never seems to apply to the salmon run does it? When not at a gate, you can get 2km away from them before decloaking and it’s highly doubtful a big lumbering hauler will get away in the time it takes you to wait out the timer, lock and hit your lovely new “I win” button. Even where covops might not be appropriate for gate camping, should we all really have to put up with such an overpowered combination of mods elsewhere just to suit one niche?
I understand that you’re whining about dual scrams gimping fits, while leaving out that WCS gimps fits even more so, and ignoring the fact that I’d already mentioned all this, so that you can get around an inconvenient truth and pretend it’s a new point that hasn’t already been debunked up top.
I understand that the reason that we’re disagreeing, is because you’re confusing lack of opportunity with difficulty. Those are completely different things. I would expect there to be a lack of opportunity for wanton destruction in civilised space. I would expect someone to make a mistake first in order to become an opportunity in empire space. You shouldn’t expect otherwise. Blapping a hauler can’t be difficult when they do make the mistake of giving you an opportunity. They’re defenceless. I would say “low effort, low reward” but your chosen profession’s rewards can be pretty hefty indeed. So it’s right that it should be low effort, low opportunity instead. This all just smells of a gate camper complaining that gate camping is boring. Why on earth would it be exciting? If it was any more exciting, few would use the gates anyway, and empire space would just be null.
In a previous post, you more or less said foregone conclusions are boring, and I agreed with you, and still do. The best way to avoid that, is to reverse these changes for now, and go back the drawing board. Pre-change dynamics may not have been perfect, but there was more or less a balance between slipperiness and tackling. Sometimes they might have had several WCS on, and you got thwarted. Sometimes they didn’t, and you got them. There you used to have your “excitement” for both parties, not knowing how things will turn out because of a diversity in fitting choices. Although it’s a bit sociopathic to believe that non-consensual pvp is ever “exciting” for someone who just wants to relax on a Saturday afternoon in an area of space that’s not meant for PvP, to get ganked by cowardly Lions who swipe at mice, because they’re too afraid to do it to one another.
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Eve offline status monitor now shows a clear player verdict on the update. I reckon there’s roughly a 5-10% drop since May 19th. I hope player numbers pick up again if caps work out a way to rebalance the tackle vs avoidance equation but, right now, the figures aren’t promising.
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Player numbers are always down this time of year due to the nicer weather. The lockdowns ending and people being allowed to do normal things again is also a thing, that and TBC launch.
yyy… so now to catch a cloaky hauler (which was hard to catch before- cloaky, can use mwd+cloak or crash gate and cloak, burst jammer) you need a faction scram and hope it takes gate to next system before nullification cooldown is gone. Where you need another dictor. Same for cloaky frigs except it was almost impossible to catch a competent pilot before, now it’s impossible to catch one, only ones you get are those who don’t read patch notes or are asleep at keyboard and don’t activate the new omgyolo mods
Clearly not paying attention. Bubble a gate on both sides, leave a load of cans hanging around for good measure, and that blockade runner is toast. You win with minimal effort. The fact that you aren’t doing that is because you haven’t read through this thread properly, but if you do bubble a gate on both sides and lay obstacles, you automatically beat a blockade runner.
You shouldn’t be able to though, because that’s the point of blockade runners to begin with. It’s why they’re called blockade runners. They…run…through…block…ades…and if they didn’t exist, the so-called player driven economy of this game would grind to a halt, and nothing would ever get anywhere.
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That is not true but keep believing that and dying.
Can drop lots of sets of t1 drones… faster and better coverage. But I find it extremely bad gameplay and not sure how CCP looks at gate clutter.
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I came to check and see if its a good time to return playing, but its even worse then when I left. No thanks!
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Thanks for the lengthy reply! It might not be futile after all.
No, I am many things as I do like many different playstyles. But some I just didn’t try yet or have not much experience. My hunting example was made with lowsec pvp in mind.
Not conveniently, but yes, as I never did that before and also never experienced it as a common thing. I don’t believe it is a fun experience to wait in a cloaky loki for some explorer to appear eventually.
Haha, I like that. However, in eve, players can be smarter than salmons. Eve is a mmo after all. You can check intel channels, ingame map, dotlan, zkillboard, or - the best option - scouts. So you know where the bears are and can either group up with friends to get some nice bear meat or avoid the location.
Bubbles won’t stop you with the new module. It’s the camper with containers and/or drones who might.
Please, give me one example where I might find a non-afk hauler when not at a gate?
The whole argument we are having is about I don’t see it as overpowered but you do 
I understand you always pick what you want to pick and ignore the rest or just make false claims. with the changes you do need to gimp your fits any more using multiple wcs, you can only have one. now you have one or even more slots free to fit your ship properly.
…is probably we are talking about different games. I believe nothing should be safe and hope to be in line with what ccp wants the game to be.
I don’t expect otherwise. I am with you here. The definition of ‘mistake’ might be different, though. For example, using a T1 hauler without the tank to survive a single Tornado volley is a big mistake in my opinion. And hauling even more value to be worth multiple gank ships is an even bigger mistake. But that has nothing to do with the changes we are discussing in this topic.
Sure I could live with that. I didn’t call for those changes. But I adapted and feel much more safe in my hauler than before. I find it interesting that you don’t.
It will get your adrenaline running. Not sure whether that qualifies as ‘excitement’. it definitely will spoil your relaxation.
There is no area of space that is not meant for PvP, you must confuse Eve online with another game.
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Epithal at a customs office. But the attentive ones spend only the time there that it takes to align to the next planet.
They’re called blockade runners because they are good at running blockades, not because they are supposed to be able to run every blockade.
That said, if the ingate is bubbled you should still be able to navigate through the bubbpes and objects until you can jump (I mean, I’ve been doing it through the 1DQ bubble camp in bombers), so you can then save your nulli module to warp out immediateoy on the other side, no matter the bubbles or objects there.
Or turn around/wait, if you see a full fleet camping the ingate. Some blockades aren’t meant to be ran.
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They obviously don’t care, or they’d have done something about it
Nor are they meant to be easily caught.
Cool
Agreed.
Yes, caveats abound, because none of us have time to write entire essays. But you seem to agree that the analogy is mostly apt, so moving on…
Agreed, but I’m not sure I ever said the bubbles themselves are what get you killed. But it is the bubble that will stop them warping under cloak if covops equipped, such that said campers have time to do something about their presence. With the current mechanics, haulers are vulnerable to gates that are bubbled on both sides.
Someone gave an example of the epithal. But there are also wormholes. Admittedly, I was mostly referring to the latter when i was writing the above, and am guilty of mixing scenarios here.
See above. This statement was a continuation of the wormhole scenario above, and indeed, the loki example you just gave. The combination of covops cloak and faction scrambler really is massively overpowered. It may not make sense to use it as a lowsec gate camper, but away from the gates at exploration sites is another story.
What false claims? Tell me what can counter a faction scram and this will carry…
Your first sentence, you’re just accusing me of what I accused you of, only I gave a basis…and now your deflection proves me correct…because once again you’re skirting around the issue that a module has now become completely and utterly invincible, and trying to muddy it with rubbish about fitting benefits that have no real benefit.
The rest is irrelevant since you’re talking about haulers. In what scenario is a hauler going to be able to fit something in the lows that would better get it out of a fight its not designed for? Hauler’s can’t fight. Even if we were talking more generally about ships that aren’t haulers, hunters pick and choose their targets on the basis of whether they can take them, so having more low slots is still useless, because if they’re in a fight it’s already been determined that they will lose most of the time before it’s even began. That was the case even before these changes for the most part, and now it’s even worse. Hunters aren’t as brave as they like to claim, by and large, they pick weak targets. Gate campers are less discerning, and just engage pretty much anything, but that’s why there are lots of them. This is not balance, this is not fun, and matters not if we can still have one, or only have one when that one is absolutely bloody useless. You’re still under the impression that it’s of any use, ever, at any time, like it’s great that we get to have this great mod that works as well as many used to. You’re forgetting the reason why many were necessary. It’s not useful anymore, it’s completely redundant in the face of the infallible god module that is the faction scrambler. We’ve been through that in this thread again and again and again, and people such as yourself just dance around it, like you’re doing now because it makes you literally inescapable…and for all the talk about “I win” buttons being bad, you won’t give up your own.
It’s not balanced, and what you say about having to close distance and lock etc etc, is lack of positioning and lack of opportunity…which is to be expected. That doesn’t justify things being completely one sided and a foregone conclusion once combat has been initiated. In the same way that a hauler or a lone traveller does not have the god given right to get away, you don’t have the god given right to pin them down. Even the salmon should occasionally be able to wriggle out once caught, rare though it may be.
Corrected that for you.
CCP wants money, and will say the game should be whatever the community says it will be. Unfortunately, non PvPers are inherently, a quite bunch and a loud minority has been allowed to dominate the narrative for far too long.
Agreed.
You haul around null? If you’re flying around lowsec, nullification doesn’t matter anyway, and now you have nothing to fall back on if a server tick issue ruins your cloak timing. If you feel safer, great, but you’re not. Still, I’m not mean spirited. I hope that the luck you’re having holds, and you can continue this false sense of security.
PvPers always come out with this self-serving spiel, and there’s no evidence for it whatsoever. It wasn’t always this way. Just because PvP is possible everywhere, does not mean a place is meant for it. It’s lazy thinking that concludes that can = should.
This is an MMO. A social game. If there’s no place you can at least relax a bit with friends without being docked, no or few activities you can engage in with others without constant fear of destruction of time and investment, it’s not fun, it’s not social and it’s not smart for CCP to allow it to continue. There need to be varying degrees of engagement in a game that claims to be a whole world, as MMOs do. But that’s simply not the case anymore. You only have to look at the player ship destruction numbers for May. More ships are destroyed in highsec than anywhere else. I’m not going to argue that you should be 100% safe in highsec, but it’s literally the most dangerous part of New Eden now. How does that make sense, including from a lore perspective? It’s more dangerous than null these days, which is only reinforced now by the nullification changes. CCP spends more time trying to find ways to protect nullsec that it does highsec. It’s backwards.
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Care to elaborate? Of course not. Not a single person who’s disputed it ever has done so. They just pretend to, while talking about everything else but that.
I lost my t3 ship because of this disgrace and the replies I got from support were sad. I urgently want t3 ships to remove this module and make them immune, t3 ships should be kept apart from this update, that’s why we were learning and using these ships, it doesn’t make any sense anymore. It is very sad that I do not lose a t3 ship with Travel fir and if it is not fixed, I will seriously quit the game. Since the time I exploded, I only take daily and leave, I do not log in.
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Did you forget to activate the module before warping out of the bubble? Or did you not activate the module and land in a bubble?
Yea that’s harsh when you lose your ship that way. But now you’ve learned to activate that module at the right time, right?
the problem is the timing of running this module. While t3 ships were naturally immune, they finished t3s. In every system, will I open that module and get wapr, what will happen when I pass through the door? When we see what to do in large systems where I can’t see the balloon, pressure doesn’t work.
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What I do:
- Keep the nullification module ready in case I jump through a gate and see a camp with bubble on the other side.
- Dscan gates before I warp to them - for this you may need a nearby celestial, anomaly or prepare bookmarks
Once you do this, it’s really hard to get caught in any ship that has a fit nullification module, including T3Cs. I’m flying a T3C without nullification subsystem and just an offline nullification module that I online when I’m travelling or when I expect bubbled gatecamps.
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