October 2018 Release - General Feedback

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(Othello Warspite) #252

would be better to make the ECCM script shorten the cycle time, rather than shorten it for Sebos in general, because that would require a wider cost balance.

If it’s just the one script that reduces cycle time, then it can also be balanced by reducing cap costs (which should be programmed in already: ammo does it)


(Brisc Rubal) #253

Only in a one v. one scenario. In all of the other scenarios where you can expect jammers and would likely fit ECCM to deal with it, it’s still a viable thing to fit and it’s not cost free. If you’re in a fleet fight, just being able to target the jammer while the rest of the other guys fleet is pounding on you or you’re trying to stop them from getting away, its still a thing.

It’s common in these kinds of balance fixes for the pendulum to go all the way from one side to all the way on the other. That’s why I’m here getting feedback on things we can do to mitigate that.


(Scooter6976) #254

this is false and you know it. eccm script WORKS 100% OF THE TIME. whether that means you get to shoot back, well, that’s something entirely different. that you Demand such a thing is proof that this is not a balance, it is a bandaid, and in all fairness, it fixes nothing. it breaks many things.


(Scooter6976) #255

we all Know what the frustration is. what is beyond ppl with balance in mind, is that the frustration is squarely misplaced on the ecm and rng mechanics themselves. they are not to blame. the blame rests on the shoulders of the person who failed to fit the proper counters to overcome ecm in its more potent forms. that’s the fault of the pilot, not the mechanic or ecm as a whole.


(Battlingbean) #256

Did you guys consider changing the jamming formula to vary with more things than just sensor strength? You could allow jam chance to vary with distance for example. The closer you get to the jammer the less chance a jam will succeed. This could allow counter play and under some conditions allow for zero percent chance of successful jam. A lot could be done by simply changing the jamming formula.

However, regarding the current mechanic, I simply won’t fly the ships. I didn’t train perfect ECM skills to force people to shoot at me… actually; I trained them so people wouldn’t shoot at me.


(Iowa Banshee) #257
  • The ECM burst is also sensor strength vs sensor strength + RNG - It does not work every-time.
  • Your ASB or Armour repairers work AFTER hits they are not shields to prevent damage.
  • The ECCM works like a shield BEFORE the ecm hit NOT like a repair after the damage is taken and what shield is 100% effective?

If you want to repair the damage done from a ECM hit (jam) - then make something do just that NOT remove a whole class of ships from the game.

**Negative There was no mention of this ^^ **

The concern was clearly stated as being player agency - being able to do something when jammed - not the method used to achieve the jam
It was suggested that this agency would be provided if they could lock the jamming player if you are jammed.

The obvious answers would be to give them a chance of breaking their jam once jammed not a freebie lock against an attacker

“ECM is mentioned and CCP Rise feels that being able to do something on the field despite being Jammed would be a necessary change to make a good ECM balance. One idea which was thrown around was to be able to target the ship which is jamming the player”


(Circumstantial Evidence) #258

This one comment seems a bit over the top. Jamming ships may be irrelevant now in certain popular use cases, but ECM was not made irrelevant everywhere. Jamming drones can still help solo’s escape, and ECM in fleet contexts still interferes with hostile logi.


(Proteus Onzo) #259

Your comment understates the impact this has.

Caldari ships are not bonused for ECM drones, or drones overall.
Many dont even have drone bays, or very small ones.
Nor are they effective against drone based ships.

This change forces them into a very narrow and situational niche of basically only jamming Logi that dont shoot back.


(Brisc Rubal) #260

So would you recommend these ships get bigger drone bays and bonuses for ecm drones or just regular drones?


(Proteus Onzo) #261

I’m glad you thought about the same!

Its possible, but a quite severe change in the current ship balance across them all.
Even more so than this change was to Caldari ships…

My preferred solution, would be a reduced chance to damage the jamming target, as a ship, by the jammed ship.

Maybe something like no critical/wrecking hits possible, and all are glancing, or increased chance of miss.

That would indirectly represent a degree of jamming, and reduce income dps on the jamming ship, by the jammed target.


(Circumstantial Evidence) #262

Sounds like a weapon disruptor. Which is I think what some people are using, now that ECM is “broken.”


(Proteus Onzo) #263

No quite, but similar.

TD and GD have a different effect on mechanic to hit, and what damage they cause.
Neither involve drones, specifically.

Im talking about a pervasive effect across projectiles/turrets/drones, from being jammed, that affects them all, as less critical/wrecking hits, and more missed hits.

So while the jammed ship can still maintain lock on and aggress the jamming ship, its effective dps by all means against it will be substantially reduced, as no critical hits, more misses, and less dmg from missiles.


(Circumstantial Evidence) #264

Sounds simple enough to implement, then: “You are jammed. You are now doing X% (lengthy discussion about what percentage) of normal damage.” (Penalty does not increase with additional jamming.)

But, isn’t that better than and obsolete all weapon disruptor modules?


(Proteus Onzo) #265

Indonr know the exact numbers, but ECM already obsoleted weapon disruptor modules before.
The tradeoff was the RNG involved in ECM, whereas weapon disruptors apply always.

And both had the issue they do not apply to drone ships.


(Salt Foambreaker) #266

Knowing and doing are two different thing, the change is a hack, a “fix it with the hammer” move.


(Xsagaroth) #267

Still zero response from CCP on this frankly appalling “balance pass” - I honestly dont know how else we are meant to give feedback other than to just waste our isk fitting scorps, blackbird and rooks as combat ships with 0 ecms and then dying horribly multiple times to “feedback” that this is very poorly thought out.
Ive extracted all skills that improve ECM on my characters bar “electronic warfare IV” as that is the only skill you need to be effective with ecm drones, which really are the most broken aspect of ECM, and they work just fine.


(Salt Foambreaker) #269

Not a balance pass, we are in “butt hurt revenge”, just look at last month, they removed the need to dock to unload just because of a tiny hauler scam that most haulers either never fall for, or only fall for once.


(Iowa Banshee) #270

Yes, Drones still do help a solo escape - if they have a drone bay. I won’t list all the ships without drone bays that can no longer use ECM for this purpose.

By this, I assume you mean interferes with their role of being primarily logi by adding the role of target caller - when they replace a sebo with a target painter and drone assist clears all the ecm from the field


(Proteus Onzo) #271

Example:

Fleet mustering up:

Q: Hey guys, I fly a perfect Caldari ECM ship, can I join?
A: Uhm, why?
Q: I can jam a dps ship so it focuses me and drains our Logi.
A: Uhh, what else can you do?
Q: I can jam a logi, while all their dps focuses me, and drains our Logi.
A: What about drone ships?
Q: I can jam a drone!
A: Yeah, no thanks.


(Iowa Banshee) #272

Don’t forget to ADD a jammed ship cannot use drone assist - most logi will not care about the damage they deal as they will just use assist and a TP