October 2018 Release - General Feedback

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(Proteus Onzo) #273

Id prefer that the drones of the ship cant critical hit, and are more likely to miss on the jammer target, thus reducing effective dps.

I thought I said that.


(Circumstantial Evidence) #274

In fleet contexts, if CCP tanks up rooks and falcons THEN they are more effective when tanking hostile fleets - because they are jamming the hostile logi (and friendly logi can hold them up longer if EHP is increased.) Weren’t jamming ships primary targets before this change?


(Xsagaroth) #275

uh huh


(Iowa Banshee) #276

I once thought it would be fun to jam 3 Domis that had just finished a sleeper site - Failed a jam and found out that 15 T2 wardens can kill you before you warp off.

Edit: I wonder what 35 or more would do


(Iowa Banshee) #277

With this change the logical position for logistics would be next to the ECM ships.

  • The dps ships will literally be forced to shoot the ecm ships.
  • The logi will have to rep the ecm or the incoming DPS kills them.
  • No point in jamming logi as a friendly jam will allow reps.
  • You can dictate where an enemy has to attack

The force with the largest proportion of ECM wins


(Circumstantial Evidence) #278

If friendly ECM jams friendly logi so it can catch reps from that one logi ship, friendly logi can’t rep anyone else in the fleet. Sometimes hostile FC switches targets, I don’t think we end up stuck with your scenario. Were fleets bringing tons of ECM before this change, when they were more effective?


(Salt Foambreaker) #279

Read the blog, the real complaint was about the drone.

They just hammered everything.


(dewk) #280

There isn’t due to the % chance system.

Example;
Ec300 vs Battleship
1 ecm strength vs a 28 sensor strength
1/28= 0.035 = 3.5%

*should note the ec300 ecm strength is the same as the other racial ecm on a racial ECM (3 primary and 1 others)
**see ECM guide on wiki for counters, how current system works.

This is the issue no matter how weak the ecm is or how strong the sensor strength, the chance system allows any ecm a chance to jam.

Hence suggesting of strength vs strength as a cycle timer (ecm str - sensor str = ecm cycle time) or as a straight fail or success.


(dewk) #281

The issue isn’t really about the drone, but about how a low ECM strength can jam any ship no matter how strong the of the sensors, even with ECCM, sensor booster, etc…

Even at the best possible sensor strength, there’s still a minimum of 1% chance.

Hence many suggestions to chance the system from the % chance system.


(Iowa Banshee) #282

I think this change except for solo (and maybe small gang) makes ECM more powerful for fleet engagements - so powerful in fact that ECM can direct the course the course of a battle.

start

FC: calls for a target switch - No can do sir, I HAVE to shoot the ecm ships.
FC: ok then, have our ECM target their logi - but sir they have target painters if we do that we will die to drone assist.
FC: In that case ecm their dps ships
ECM : We need reps
FC: Logi rep the ecm

goto start


(Iowa Banshee) #283

There’s always a chance or a miss the RNG can return zero
If you use RNG +1 then hit chances over 100% (which in math terms means a negative number is also a hit) will break the compiler.


(dewk) #284

Just shows how bad the current % chance system is.


(Iowa Banshee) #285

I think its built into the programming language
You have to jump thru loops to make zero not a zero (loops = dev pun)

I have failed to jam a Merlin (+5) with a Falcon (+15) - and quite frankly I don’t mind
I think adding a chance to fail on all these EWAR mods would be a nuance to combat - 1 in 99 chance that you neut does not neut

Imagine how boring combat would be if the RNG was taken out of the damage equation


(Scooter6976) #286

exactly. just because they added a manual method to ‘fly’ your ship, doesn’t mean eve is a classic flight simulator kind of game. closer to a board game tbh…

and recall, all of ccp’s attempts at a first person sim/shooter have failed miserably. just saying.


(Salt Foambreaker) #287

You wanted 100% safe, got it.

Even then they could have increased the chance, not bash it with a hammer.


(dewk) #288

The example is like having the Enterprise aircraft carrier with all its power sensor and eccm gear, and someone in a dingy with a hanradio size ecm unit at 1km and he jams the a carrier…


(Salt Foambreaker) #289

Then strengthen the ECCM.

Simple and much more elegant, in keeping with EVE.

The solution they gave us is not even rational. It is a screw it use the hammer solution.


(Ildrara) #290

Nothing counters ECM other than staying in the station if the enemy intends to use it on you.


(Tink Pickles) #291

Except:

  • Warping, either off grid or to another point on grid, when jammed.
  • Fitting a Sensor Booster with an ECCM script will drastically reduce the number of cycles you spend jammed. Fitting two is just mean to ECM pilots.
  • Learning the skills to boost sensor strength
  • Burning out of range of the jams (Most easily accomplished against navy griffins)
  • Fitting Auto-Targeting Missiles (Far more useful in solo or small gang than the massive fleet engagements some prefer)
  • Rushing them and smartbombing them repeatedly. (Especially effective against frigate ECM)
  • Having drones in space set to aggressive.

Many of these, especially burning out of range and doing a warp are 100% effective at breaking jams. Three of them allow pilots who are properly fit to fight back and often kill the jammer. Others provide a passive protection that greatly reduces the chance that your ship will be successfully permajammed.


(Sulvorati Kunoki) #292

Seems to me ECM needs to break lock. That at least would allow for the situation where an industrial pilot in a one-on-one situation still gets a chance to escape - no matter how slim. Whether the defender can then re-lock is debatable. It does seem a bit of a fudge of the system and not a particularly clever solution. Anti-ECM weapons, like auto-targetting missiles seems more in keeping with the spirit of the game.
For those who don’t like the fact that drones and frigs can ecm a larger ship with higher sensor strength the solution should be a cumulative effect of ECM. Each individual ECM strength brought to bear on a target should be added together, in some way, to counter the strength of the defender. Then large ships with high sensor strength would need a bunch of ecm attackers to overwhelm them. I’d suggest a stacking penalty similar to the fitted module stacking penalty so that combined ECM strength doesn’t get too high.

The way the October ecm change has been implemented by CCP is extremely poor. When changes happen and you get this kind of excuse - ‘The downside here is that in the short term, balance for ships focused on ECM may be a bit out of whack.’ ie they know there are going to be problems - then the first recourse should have been NOT to implement the change without further thought. To effectively neuter a whole class of ships and gaming tactics is hugely disingenuous to the whole player base and particularly those pilots who are directly affected. That ECM existed for so long in its previous form says to me that there was no reason to rush the change and not have it thought through properly.