[October] Further QoL & New Player Focused changes

Greetings Tenacious Testers!

The EVE Dev team have been working on another package of tweaks, fixes and improvements for the October release, which have reached the our public test server Singularity in today’s update.

As with the last package, these changes are primarily focused on improving the experience for pilots in their first few hours and days in New Eden, but of course many of these will be generally useful for pilots of all ages and experience levels. At this time this list is incomplete, and more changes may be added over the coming weeks or make it into the final patch notes.

If nothing significant turns up during the testing period these changes will be released in the October patch. As always, if you wish to help, head on over to Singularity and get involved!

Changes

General:

  • Un-packaged (and undamaged) items can now be sold without any need to repackage them first. Doing so will automatically repackage the item. In the case of non-empty ships or containers you will receive a confirmation message.
    * To prevent item exchange scams relying on changing the trade’s manifest at the last second, trading now has a confirmation window listing the trade’s item and isk contents. UPDATE: This feature will be delayed to a later release while we iterate over the User Experience

User Interface:

  • Added a suppressible warning when in a station and attempting to buy an item located in another station
  • Help Pointer links can now be pasted into chat
  • Added a filter box to the Shortcuts tab of the settings menu to allow you to more easily find a specific shortcut
  • Added a default “Launch Drones” shortcut (Shift + F) for anyone that had not yet set a shortcut

Tutorial:

  • Updates have been made to the rewards in the Tutorial and how those rewards are claimed
  • Adding active states and animations to the Mission and Tutorial info panel buttons

Known Issues:

  • TBC

Thanks and happy testing!

CCP Lebowski for the EVE Dev Team

5 Likes

Can we talk about this

Why can we not toggle this off i live in null sec i literally do not care about War decs.

15 Likes

FCs who use trade windows to hand stuff out will be very very unhappy with this unless there’s an ezmode way to skip it on their end.

Also, tradescams are a classic and Eve’s already safe enough. Why remove it? :frowning:

10 Likes

Which CSM member got scammed to initiate this change?

3 Likes

Is there any reason we’re nerfing scamming for no reason? Its one of the core things that make EVE what it is, its not a simple UI change it literally affects the playstyle of many people.

3 Likes

About time a 15 year old broken game mechanic gets a patch.

5 Likes

scamming new players is something not healthy.

9 Likes

Is this all for October? Only no-brainer fixes/QoL which should have been done years ago.

2 Likes

Most trade scam victims aren’t new, unless they’re plex warlords. Lots of old, nullsec players lose isk on trade scams.

If CCP doesn’t think trade scams should be in the game, they can at least explain why they’re removing them from the game, and what evidence/statistics this is based on.

Imagine if they just said “to prevent corp theft we’re making it so the CEO can always reclaim corp assets even if they’re stored in someone else’s hangar.” Well, OK, that works, but why would you do this? What’s the constituency? Who benefits? What’s the point of it?

2 Likes

Please move the tutorial videos onto the Agency Tutorial menu! The secret F12 menu is really not the right place to have this fairly decent information hidden.

6 Likes

As noted in the post, there will be an option to set this to auto accept, making it act exactly like it does now

New players would get hit by these particular scams, and when they do it can be incredibly impactful to their early experience in New Eden. As we state above, our objective has been to improve the early game experiences of new players which is why we’ve made the choice to make these trades clearer, especially to someone not familiar with the Item Exchange UI.

Nope this is only a subset that we wanted to notify people of today when the patch was deployed to Singularity.

10 Likes

Do you have any stats/info on how many new players actually got hit by this? A lot of people who run trade scams never target new people because it’s not worth putting the work in to scam someone’s t1 fit thorax. Most serious tradescam targets were hit for billions, often tens of billions.

I’ve chilled out with a lot of New Eden’s top scammers for years, and I know for a fact that most of us targeted rich people almost exclusively. I’ve scammed more super pilots than newbies with this. I could accept losing one of my best gimmicks if it were having a serious, damaging impact on new people, but I’m deeply skeptical of that proposition.

Have you considered simply including a tutorial on trading in the NPE telling people to not use trades for anything important, since the other party can change what’s in the window whenever they want? (You could reiterate it the first time someone redeems plex or any other RL$-purchase item.) Then if people get careless and lose a rorqual or something to it years down the road, that’s on them.

Also, was this change explicitly pushed by certain CSM members? If so, can we know who?

3 Likes

Can someone explain to me how a player gets scammed with the trade window when anything that is moved out or added makes the check box reset.

They don’t read the isk very carefully because they think this is runescape and they’ll get a confirmation window and ccp will give them their isk back

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/477601/

^Ironically this was one of the times I scammed a new player with this, although I don’t feel bad about it.

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/6445154/

1 Like

New players would get hit by these particular scams, and when they do it can be incredibly impactful to their early experience in New Eden. As we state above, our objective has been to improve the early game experiences of new players which is why we’ve made the choice to make these trades clearer, especially to someone not familiar with the Item Exchange UI.

The first time I fell off my bike and scraped the hell out of my knees and elbows was ‘incredibly impactful’ to my early riding experience. It taught me that it was not a perfectly safe activity which I could enjoy at no risk to myself. It made bike riding more thrilling. Of course, my balance improved due to my fear of intimate relations with the ground. Now I go fast on motorcycles, with which I can, and have, repaint an entire stretch of road.

If your interface is not clear to newbros, would that not demand a change for clarity, rather than idiot-proofing? I’ve always, always enjoyed the potential for unrestrained humanity that comes with this game. Your insistence on appealing to the lowest common denominator, though, is a dangerous precedent. Frankly, I don’t feel like it’s my problem if the lowest possible denominator, a CSM, gets scammed and turns into a pillar of salt in the middle of a summit.

Please reconsider emulating Blizzard in handling your player base with fuzzy mittens on.

2 Likes

We have some internal data on how often players report these issues to our customer support team yes.

We could certainly add a tutorial explaining trade more clearly, but in this specific case the scam involves using a UI that doesnt fit our modern standards for UX. We tend to give clear information to pilots when they are making a trade (see the messages in the market, the finalize step of the contract window, etc) and in this case this UI wasn’t meeting those standards. As such in this case it made more sense to improve that UI rather than build a tutorial specifically to warn new players about why the UI is bad.

No, we talked about it at the CSM summit, but this was an internal proposal.

Scammers have got incredibly good at predicting their targets behavior and making changes to the contents of the trade at the last second. :stuck_out_tongue: They are a smart bunch.

10 Likes

I see that they were taking advantage of a person’s ignorance of the trade system by baiting their approval and hitting their own the moment the trade was green and after the quick adjustment.

I like to ride bikes too but I also used stabilizers when I was a kid and didn’t know what I was doing.

Clarity is the exact intention of this change, a window that appears and clarifies the action you are about to perform.

8 Likes

To prevent item exchange scams relying on changing the trade’s manifest at the last second, trading now has a confirmation window listing the trade’s item and isk contents. NOTE: The current UI is placeholder, and the ability to set confirmations to auto-accept has not yet been added.

Which CSM member advocated for this?

This change is an awful way to make EVE more safe. Those who are trade scammed are more-than-not experienced players who do not bother to check what they are doing. It is their fault they did not check. This pandering to players who want a safer EVE universe needs to stop.

4 Likes

Btw… can I claim the credit for another great shortcut made default? :slight_smile:

1 Like