Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

Can’t legislate human nature away. Just fight its dark side off one battle at a time. One sun at a time.

Yup! Totally. But then, so is literally all of reality. I mean, two observers sufficiently far apart, moving differently at different speeds… start running into mutually-exclusive frames of reference, you know? Reality is all in the observation of reality, much like our selves only exist as processes over time, and don’t actually correspond to any particular single moment of brain-state. Sooo… :woman_shrugging: Life is subjective. Who knew?

You don’t. You simply strive to make things better, as best you can, in the limited ways your understanding allows. Thinking you can ‘arrange things’ or even ‘realize your vision’ is just hubris. You do what you can, within the limits of your morality, and hope for the best.

Are you people talking about Nation’s solution to those pesky subjectivities? The tech is sound, the usage

No, and the tech is not sound. Living in denial does not change the underlying subjectivity of reality.

Last I was aware, outside of the Militia Warzone, Caldari and Gallente still shared active trade agreements… not really the actions of warring nations, is it?

And she is correct in that Quafe does maintain Corporate Status within The State, though it is correct to say they don’t quite fit in quite the same league as the big eight. They still have rights within State borders however, and even won the Caldari Business Tribunal ruling about the destruction of that trade convoy by state border units a little while back.

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Have you considered giving some weight to outcomes rather than intent?

Because it’s not my thread you’re shitting up.

Moving this over here so it doesn’t derail things there any further…

This is where I point out that you, a Fed native, do not do yourself or your outsider allies any favors by doubling down on unproven conspiracy theories against the legitimately-appointed system governor and Khumatar that got other outsiders in trouble in the first place.

And I’m not saying that because I think Efrit is a paragon of virtue. I’m saying that because the Accords demonstrated repeatedly that they weren’t willing to accept the decisions of the legitimate and legal government of a Republic system, and then went and issued a unilateral cease-fire against the invaders with no indications of concession or even reciprocity from the Clades.

Instead, after engaging in what amounted to armed revolt against the Republic government present, they actively threw in with the invaders the moment they could make a claim to being in charge. So doubling-down on attacks against the legally appointed Republic government doesn’t score you any points, doesn’t earn you any slack, and basically just screams ‘HI! DECIDE I’M WRONG AND SHOULD BE OPPOSED BASED ONLY ON THIS! YAY!’

And I don’t think that’s the sort of thing you want to be doing. So I’m cautioning you against doing that. See, Efrit’s an asshole, but he’s ours. And you’re not. And that kind of dynamic tends to get a really bad, really visceral response from a lot of us that has nothing to do with the merits of the case, and everything to do with, well, tribalism. So, y’know, it’s not a good move, no matter how right you might believe you are.

As for the argument that it was ‘only’ the Republic’s appointed representative in the system who made that distinction… yeah, and? He didn’t exactly need to play mother-may-I with the Sanmatar on that call, it was within his authority, and not limited to ‘only within Skarkon’.

I mean, if your argument here is ‘well, we’re boned and we’re gonna have a hell of a time clearing our name, especially while we’re simultaneously still actively attempting to make nice with the Trigs’… Well… yes. Yes, you are. And you will. Because you still are.

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What is a… Discord? Is this a form of Gal-Net UI I am not aware of?

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I will go and directly take exception to this, I am not native to the Gallente Federation, and though my capsuleer certification is through the Federal Navy Academy by way of some favors and strings pulled, that is about the extent of my ‘nativeness’ therein. Me and my people are not, and should not be considered members or party to the Gallente.

That out of the way, I do not dispute that the handling of much of things by one Warden Eskola-Fae is, and has been problematic. That in mind, much of this started, prior to much of what you’ve stated, with gangs and criminal elements igniting a turf war, the Accords did, initially, act within their rights to counter those criminal elements and gangs, as given to them by their settlement agreements with the Thukker Tribe. things got complicated incredibly quickly when Efrit came out backing Krullefor, after we(both UNF forces and BosAc) had been advised by REPUBLIC NATIVES(at least three local clans to the Heath, and two clans from other parts of the republic to my knowledge that I myself interacted with) not to back the Krullefor Organization or Seykal Headhunters as it would be seen worse than siding with the Cartel even.

The situation in Skarkon, and the wider heath has been a political shitstorm well before Efrit was ever laterally promoted to Khumatar with the, pretty clear implication of ‘clean up your mess,’ and he’s only doubled down on the mess he made up to, and even after final liminality. That is… not great. and he’s now had another lateral promotion with the clear implication ‘die for your people, you will serve some use at least,’ makes me think that overall it is self-correcting, even with the RJD no longer able to investigate him properly.

My greatest issue, overall, is that, from the outside looking in, the man has a hubris problem even greater than many a capsuleer. He funded criminals to disparage and damage another tribe, he funded criminals to actively fight eachother with republic civilians caught in the crossfire. HE DOUBLED DOWN on that by ‘raising’ one of the criminal elements he funded, that had been actively brutalizing and shaking down civilian centers during their turf wars with the cartel across the Heath, and even after being elevated to ‘legitimacy’ continued acting as a gang of opportunistic thugs and brigands, against ‘the people they were protecting.’ All the while Efrit decrying any evacuations not overseen by his forces as slaving? It being such a massive farce Of showmanship is why I did not pull out my own units until the very late stages of the weaving. I don’t blame the Sanmatar for giving the man war emergency powers in the system as it was already going to hell by first liminality, but UNF and Bosena Accords offered multiple cease fire attempts to fight against the triglavians, and overall attempt to de-escalate the ground situation the first two times system was invaded and both the triglavians and edencom withdrew, We had offered and begun preparations to fully pull back all units when the RJD initially announced its investigations against the Efrit, Krullefor, and Seykal, and even as first liminality was finally reach upon the third invasion we again offered to try and bring the conflict down. But Efrit continued escalating further and further, civilians taking the worst of the abuses as he got rid of anyone who didn’t fall perfectly in line or criticized him by claiming them a sympathizer, or a cartel operative, or a ‘disguised warclone to be executed’ being his most popular form of dispatch. I’ve continued, even now, evacuating civilians off of Skarkon II, even now with the orbital corridors far more dangerous, even with Seykal mercenaries still holding their tactical nuke threats up, and even now as the system is worse off than it ever was at the Most brutal height of Operation Galatine. ■■■■ I’ve even pulled out Krullefor and other UTSF elements that were cut off and wanted out. They’ve all been returned to the Republic proper, despite the Valklear General Efrit continuing to rave we’re nothing but mindless slavers, butchers, and outsiders while the system burns down around him.

As for Galm and his handling of things and his attempts to bring Svarog Clade’s focus to an area we had long since evacuated before they landed enmasse, I commend his attempts at trying to focus them somewhere. That was smart. What was not smart was him trying to tout it as being otherwise an open cease fire in other areas. Svarog Clade have shown a preference to engage in the declared ‘proving area’ in Ishuhuolvi, but they regularly make excursions to other areas, and even have full control of a fair portion of previously held land by UTSF, and as news and broadcasts have shown, though they don’t actively target civilians to be hunted down, they are just as indiscriminate as the Seykal and Krullefor were with their weaponry in the presence of civilians, and do not differentiate.

tl;dr: I am not a Fed Native. I recognize he’s your asshole. He has a god complex larger than a capsuleer’s, and I still would relish the opportunity to kick him in the balls if I ever got the opportunity. He’s already a dead man walking with his lateral promotion so issue is taking care of itself.

Yes; it’s one of the 3rd party semi-legal GalNet comms networks capsuleers use.

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The situation in the Heath radically changed at this point. To go by advice given before it was a mistake.

I’m not sure I like to defend Seykal, but here I have to. Seykal are ruthless and their forces don’t respect anyone who gets in the way, but they are no Svarog. They are tribal.

On Skarkon, Seykal were engaged in a civil war among our people, and I have my opinions about that, but it was not an invasion, and they have been part of the evacuation operations since the sun went dark. Svarog has invaded the planet, removed its tribal government, and is engaged in a mass eradication of local clans and local life.

Comparing those and calling them the same is an insult to Seykal, and though them the Thukker, and through them the tribes.

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I was, generally, referring to Seykal conduct before they were paid to care and help with evacuations. At which point, them being able to reign in their people at all garnered some respect that they had lost, in my eyes. They are not blood thirsty butchers, but are quite trigger happy and don’t discriminate or care in regard to collateral damage unless they’re paid to. This is not limited to just the Seykal Expeditionary Group/Headhunters, its a trend I’ve noticed in many ‘still legitimate’ warclone groups loyal to the empires.

Similar tendencies toward indiscriminate violence does not equate them to being the same, and I apologize for the unintended insult therein caused by the misunderstanding and my lack of concise language on the matter.

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The most lukewarm apology I’ve seen in a while, but accepted.

I’m near on thirty-six hours without sleep, and even with clonejumping And copious amounts of caffeine, it is starting to catch up with me.

Legal proceedings to overturn a decision and/or to bring to light corrupted officers does not mean denying the legal authority of the body that made those decisions or included that corrupt officer in its ranks.

By stoking those procedures as a civil war between RJD and RSS, both parties sworn to serve the same coalition of free tribes, Bosena Accords did great harm to the region and pushed Skarkon over the brink of restlessness into open warfare. It was a blunder only an outsider without the grasp of nuance in such things could have done, and had it not lead to so much death and destruction it would serve as a fine comedy of manners.

Not public knowledge these days, but I am +9.5 RSS in the official records myself, still. Does it put me in their good books after the coup, after the Gultratren Conspiracy? No, it does not. Did it make them happy that I interfered in the Sundsele Six case and fueled the riots in Amo when the case was handled poorly? Absolutely not.

Did the old connection help me deal with them when it turned out I had started something I did not wish to finish and caused more people to become targets in a war they could not win and we cannot afford to fight? Yes, it did.

Could have. Didn’t.

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I would like to put forward it was not stoked as such for the purposes, and much of the view of that was retroactive to well After Skarkon had already entered open warfare, but I can understand where you are coming from here. That is one blunder I am still severely miffed at Warden Eskola-Fae for trying to perpetuate when there already were many reasons the Accords and UNF had been in the system for months.

I think it best I finally get some sleep, so I can respond more appropriately and address your points more thoroughly later

Yep. That is true. Don’t think anyone’s disputing that.

Also true. Such is life. Things get complicated, and the terrain shifts. Did that suck for you guys? Yup. Does it matter? Not really.

And? This is another ‘yep, it sucks, but that’s life, you gotta deal with it’.

[The long bit.]

Also all accurate. Also all irrelevant. You claimed the guy might well start declaring RJD investigators to be traitors, which kind of implies he’d then take action against them. That’s what I’m warning you off from, here.

Y’think? At this point, I’m pretty curious who’s got Galm bound and gagged and locked in a supply shed, that he hasn’t started his own spree of ranting over this.

His wife, probably. After I gave him a good knock upside the head for good measure.

As for claiming Efrit could, and would declare RJD agents traitors for investigating, I do recognize that was a might bit too far on my part, but considering he’s already claimed me and my own people as ‘illegal slavers’ despite clear evidence to the contrary, I do think the man has long lost his marbles.

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I wish I could like this a dozen more times.

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