Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

Ms. Brezia-Acustmargo, I appreciate your desire to cool the conversation. Admittedly, I haven’t dug into the half-decade of proclamations by Mr. Eskola-Fae to find references. At the same time, I feel like I’m not without basis for believing that he has, at various points, indicated a desire to seize that independent enclave if it wasn’t given. This tracks with his comments on the years that were, at best, dismissive of the various empires, if not actively hostile, which dovetails nicely with his current association with Varyazi Clade and their operations on Skarkon supporting Collective interests.

Very simply, Ms. Brezia-Acustmargo, I appreciate your desire to cool the conversation. I may suggest, however, that there are more worthy or less questionable parties to champion on these forums.

This very much gives me the sense that you weren’t genuinely asking but looking for ammo. Thankfully for you I love to hear myself wax poetic, especially when its necessary to clarify my position in relation to the warclone community in Skarkon.

Avalon as a general concept for a warclone homeland has existed in one form or another since the numerous Purges leading up to the amendment of the infomorph act to include clone soldiers. Unfortunately the actions of the DEDs Red Troop in Molden Heath proved that alone wasn’t enough and that we needed to make our own institutions to defend our own right to existence. While plenty of people have contributed to the idea of Avalon and shaped it, I feel like its a bit of an injustice to ignore the fact that I founded the Bosena Accords and helped give a name to the same general sentiment.

Mr. Eskola-Fae is affiliated with the Bosena Accords and Round Table Assembly(much less so these days, but he remains a member of the Trade Congress, and not in a major control stake)

Moreover, yes, I stepped down from my position specifically in good faith to support a neutral party to administer the institutions that we had built up to that point without any sort of conflict of interest. However part of the Accords remaining neutral and its continued existence in Pochven, given its specific material circumstances, necessitates having an agent to act as a diplomat to Triglavian-allied forces in the region. From time to time, I opt to act as that diplomat no different from any organizational envoy. That role shouldn’t be downplayed, but I’m also far from speaking on behalf of the Avalon project any more than a single Senator can be said to embody the entire Gallente political sphere.

Blah blah stipulation stipulation. To your point though.

Didactically wrong. Even in the days of Molden Heath our stated intent was never, at any point, to “seize territory from the empires.” The goal of Avalon was to build our own institutions and consolidate territory acquired legally with invitation from the Thukker tribe. Land that we (with the exception if Skarkon which occupies an entirely different material position and should not be compared to) no longer lay claim to now that the invitation was retracted when we came into conflict with the corrupt Krusual-Thukker dominated Efrit regime that openly worked with criminal elements now confirmed to be a core element of the Deathless network. Criminal elements that were operating on what was at the time our rightful land and were in the right to combat no different than a stopping a burglar in your own home. The fact that some of those burglars were, after the fact, secretly working for the RSS doesn’t change that or make it our responsibility for the consequences that followed.

Territories in Skarkon weren’t “seized” but areas the warclone community already settled and developed that fell into our lap as our responsibility when the very same corrupt Efrit regime prosecuted us, refused calls for a united front against the invasion, and ultimately failed to stop the system from falling. Given Svarog’s goals of resource extraction over assimilation and development, our presence has created zones of stability on the planet where we exist mostly unhindered. That applies to mortals under our ward by their own choice as well.

Even by the most damning interpretation Avalon was never an aggressive campaign of expansion but squatting in our own home after the landlord unjustly retracted our lease, in the worlds shittiest part of town.

As for my personal philosophy, if we are already here then it would behoove us to get friendly with our new neighbors. Especially considering they seem to shoot us far less often than the previous sheriff.

I would argue that I am still very much a work in progress as far as my combat skills are concerned, however these words do carry weight coming from such a battle-hardened and distinguished combatant as yourself.

I will endeavour to make sure that I live up to them.


How broadly do you apply that principle Ms Cora?
Niarja and Raravoss were not the first, or most egregious thefts.

While I agree with you, I don’t think trying to give back the rest of Athra will really achieve much right now. You guys do get to keep some of what you’ve stolen from other nations.

I suppose we’ll see. If I ever do follow their examples and start trying to tear down the efforts of those I’m supposed to consider brethren, then I will accept all the accusations of fragility you throw at me.

Fragility of ego comes in all sorts of flavors, and doesn’t require tearing down the efforts of others.

For example, being incapable of admitting error, because your self-image is too inextricably linked to a faith.

It’s a good thing that I have a record of admitting error when appropriate, then. Even when it’s necessitated retracting statements made in anger towards those I strongly disagree with.

Stating that Amarr has not contravened the terms of its international agreements is not a statement made in error, however. And I must admit that I find it interesting when those supportive of a nation and peoples that do have a history of undermining their international obligations try to suggest otherwise. It suggests that there may be a bit of projection involved.

There is no such thing where the true faith is concerned. Free thought is the begetter of disorder, after all.

But we know how these conversations pan out. I’ve been drawn out more than enough on this topic already.

It is.

This argument only works if you’re attempting to imply anyone’s claimed the Republic is innocent or virtuous. The Sanmatar’s the public face of a kinslaying conspiracy that murdered thousands of our people, and will likely murder thousands more if it’s politically expedient toward their pursuit of power. Is that supposed to be a shock to anyone? Those in power are invariably corrupt in some way—they sought power, FFS.

We’re not the ones insisting that our power structure is exempt from repercussions, or answerable only to an imaginary space-fairy that exists only in the book that says we’re allowed to be as evil as we want, but you’re not.

Spoken like someone who knows her position is indefensible.

Didn’t ARC post an open bounty about 2 months ago incentivizing the hunting and destruction of Caldari Navy vessels for snippets of data?

Didn’t ARC endanger those very same people left in Pochven you claim to care about with that ridiculous “evacuation” operation way back?

Isn’t ARC even arguably to blame for the aggression of Drifters and their drones, having hunted the latter down fanatically when the first, harmless models emerged?

I could keep going but we’d be here all day. Anyone that takes even a cursory look at your organization and its history can see clear as day that you are nothing but a gang of irresponsible self-styled researchers that care for nothing but whatever curiosity has grabbed your interest at the time, something that in typical independent capsuleer fashion, you engage with violently and 0 forethought.

To imply that you are motivated by philanthropic aspirations is nothing short of laughable.


Thank you for providing such a clear example of my remarks.

A open bounty was offered for the data. Something you yourself has also done for the same ‘snippets of data’

ARC was open throughout it all and a diplomatic agreement was almost made, despite the people being treated as hostages. The reaction to someone who claimed to speak with consent of the Triglavian Collective was all it took to show the true and bloodthirsty nature of many of the pro-triglavian supporters. And before you bring up the infiltrator that abused the evacuation effort: ARC has already been cleared of that. It’s certainly an argument that keeps being brought up like a broken record.

There is zero evidence of this and plenty of others did exactly the same thing. It’s just very convenient to lay the blame on an organisation that is open about it and shared the results, isn’t it?

If I didn’t know any better I would say someone is having a bad case of projection and maybe even envy.

But once again thank you for confirming several of my statements that you referred to.

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The bounty on naval intelligence data was a bounty on Caldari Navy vessels. It followed a string of defiant violations of Navy ordinances.

This was my first direct contact with ARC, and it engraved in my mind the impression of your gang as vicious, flippant tabloid reporters. It will take much to change that.


Might be the weightiest sentence of… whatever that was; I confess a little awe at using so many words for a literary equivalent of a child covering her ears.


I spit out my tea. Thanks for this.

I don’t believe that the honorable Malitia-haani has, at any point, offered a bounty on the collation and collection of such data fragments, Dutch. It is important to try and keep facts straight.


Oh no, they did. They just want you to think they didn’t. It’s all good. People are very adept at changing their stripes to suit them in this universe.

I certainly have. At least I’m honest about it.

Oh my, what controversy!

I won’t try and defend the crimes of ARC, but hey, we’ve all done morally dark things. It comes with being capsuleers. I will give them two thumbs up for this recent operation though. A broken clock, and all that~

There’s nothing really controversial. I have been telling about it all this time. The ARC is an organization that was started in the first place by a disgraced person who was spreading open lies and defamations about State personnel. I have this organization marked as ‘hostile’ since quite long ago and would treat them on the grid with warm welcoming fire, not really differentiating them much from gallentean invaders or gurista.


And hey, that’s your right. But I couldn’t really care who they slandered. If they’re killing my enemies, then that’s that. Same with the Empire: I may have a good amount of disdain for them, but I still cheer when they stomp the Trig’s. And if it thins out the Empire’s ranks a bit in the process, win-win.

Well, when they slander, it means they are aggressive and hostile to such degree to act in illegally criminal ways to show their hostility. Which, I hope you agree, is a bit more severe than simply declaring themselves as enemies. Becase when they show their hostility by committing a criminal offense (like libels or slander), they become not just enemies, but also criminals.

I probably could cheer if they kill another enemy. Or I could cheer if they will be killed by that enemy. But don’t you think it’s too much cheering for no actual gain?