Your defense to the charge that the only thing Lux Invicta has done is defend an EM structure is. . . .
. . . . point to the structure you killed in revenge for our attacks on the dead Skarkon astrahus and on Smokey.
2 Likes
Before the Skarkon Astrahus went down, EMâs position more or less was âwait and seeâ. You killed it, and you cited putting pressure against us for actions we took against kybernaut-aligned capsuleers as the reason. This convinced us that wait-and-see was the wrong policy: you were and remained a threat1. At that point, we changed policy and went for active attack.
Not even our motivation was simple revenge - you could call it âretaliationâ, but the reason for it was to diminish Stribogâs strength in Pochven. Other Lux partners joined us for their own reasons2.
In no case was the Pochven war âdefenseâ for Smokey. It clearly put the structure in risk, one that has now been realized.3
1) Not saying you were wrong in remaining a threat. It made strategic sense based on what you knew at the time. It just convinced us that you were not simply locals in a lost territory, but would interfere with us, both in Pochven and also in k-space if you could.
2) I expect none of theirs involved ârevenge for Skarkonâ - Skarkon was an EM structure - but Iâll let them speak for themselves if they like.
3) Worth it.
6 Likes
I suppose it is an interesting point maybe, that it could have one either way. It is always a touch and go when you pick who to shoot first, and there were things in motion that could have made it go the other way for us.
like falling dice
is my fate
like undealt cards
is our love
will you still be here in the fall?
(from the saga play Maryan in Shishaan)
2 Likes
As one who was present on grid, I do attest that the eliminated structure indeed belonged to Electus Matari and thus constituted a hostile asset to Caldari State, Amarr Empire and any pilot who would be loyal to the State or Empire.
If any State citizen within my physical reach will claim that this structure wasnât hostile to them, I will drag them with my own hands to a court-martial.
I cannot do that to Imperial citizens, of course, but I believe you have your own organizations that should be quite efficient in rooting out all the heretics, traitors and collaborationists.
That would constitute assault, and undue aggression, if intended literally. And, Court-Martial is specific to active military and militia, not the general citizenry. You could, of course, try to report them to the appropriate station or colonial PMC authority, and then they perform the appropriate investigations, and if necessary, tribunals, but a court martial would be thrown out fairly quickly in most megas unless the citizen were in their mandatory service period.
3 Likes
Yes, we did not in fact fake a CONCORD killmail. Congratulations for your stellar field intelligence.
1 Like
Meh, I always forget there are some civvies running around too⌠occasionally. I guess Iâll just arrest them as suspects in collaboration and transfer them into Civic tribunal then of their respective Mega (with exception to Ishukone).
No need to congratulate me.
I am a professional!
With respect, Strike Commander, youâd have to throw half the State in prison.
3 Likes
I mean, when folks continue to insist that the structure did in fact belong to someone else, this kind of statement is sadly necessary. Iâm not sure your smarm is an appropriate retort to the presentation of facts to those that would deny them.
Else, you should know by now that Aldrith has let his bitterness and anger control everything he does and says for some years. Take him seriously? I donât think anyoneâs done that in quite some time, including Mitty.
Someone has to own the structure in the Concord records. Apparently thatâs the case even in Pochven. PNS did not want to keep it, though they did anchor it. LUMEN did not want to be responsible for fueling and maintaining it. We had no problems with the access control lists, gunning rights, services, or anything else. So for the Lux participants, the âownershipâ structure was workable.
I canât help but view this as merely a strawman for this conflict that Local is Primary is bent on creating.
6 Likes
You canât possibly be so stupid as to actually think youâre making a coherent point here. Would you look at an Imperium structure and say âNo, thatâs not Imperium, itâs Init.â and think thatâd fly? Think hitting it wouldnât be considered an attack on the Imperium, rather than on just Init?
This is kind of a sad spin attempt. Grow a pair and just be honest, itâs perfectly fine. You wanted to hit the EM structure, and you did it knowing that it was considered a Lux Invicta asset and you didnât care. Thatâs perfectly valid and you donât have to stage some ridiculous theatre about ânuh uh, it sez EM on itâ when every single involved soul is perfectly aware of the Lux Invicta situation and how coalitions work among freelancer capsuleers.
If youâd just be even slightly honest about it, it could even have garnered a touch of respect, but this is⌠just pathetic.
5 Likes
He is.
He canât.
Indeed. The structure was flying an Electus Matari banner. It was still a Lux Invicta coalition structure and attacking it was an attack on EDENCOM-loyal operations in the region. The statements are not in opposition. Showing us a killmail will not demonstrate that their act of Pro-Triglavian piracy was justified.
But this sort of deceptive behaivior that attempts to use simplistic CONCORD group identification as a fig leaf for reprehensible actions seems to be a sort of MO. We saw the same âCONCORD says it belongs to this group, so it definitely was themâ argument used to try and claim that the Gheinokâs Day titan and frieghter farce was a legitimate UâK operation, before they then turned it into a public attack on Amarr loyalists.
Time after time, now, the pattern is clear. Local is Primary members, cheered on by the Triglavians, publicly pick fights with other Amarr loyalists every time they get bored with the CEWPA conflict. We respond by telling them to mind their own business, and often praise their activity in the warzone, at which point they get even more aggressive and condescending. It was tiring the first time, let alone now.
It is almost like they think they are the smartest people in the room and that no one could possibly see through them. If so, the joke is on them.
2 Likes
You can take your LIKE back! You leave my Aldy alone!
4 Likes
Thereâs a super simple mechanism by which folks across multiple alliances can share control of a structure. The TTT Keepstar in Perimeter, owned by a truly âneutralâ entity, controlled by multiple member entities that are at war. You and your EM masters could have arranged something similar with Smokey. You didnât. I suspect that the key issue was trust, and that EM wasnât necessarily inclined to relinquish the handle of your leash.
Smokey wasnât controlled by Lux nor PIE nor LUMEN. Smokey was controlled by EM, and no amount of chirping, chimping, flailing, crying, revisionist history, or attempted misdirection will change that. We made our intentions and views on this matter quite clear. If the Empire disagreed, I trust that they would have intervened. If you truly had any modicum of control over the structure, you could have transferred it to a truly neutral organization. You didnât.
Anyhow, Iâm going to choose not to engage with whatever this cringe âsmartest people in the roomâ narrative is. I will clarify though that we donât publicly criticize Amarr loyalists. Weâre criticizing LUMEN. Thereâs a difference.
1 Like
I suspect the key issue was effort. Setting up an independent holding corp adds paperwork. The reason the TTC did it is because Gobbins and Vily didnât want anyone to know they were the ones backing the original creation of the TTC and the IChooseYou network (ICU is paying the TTC kickbacks).
1 Like
You personally went after PIE in public before we were in LUMEN and LUMEN are certainly Amarr Loyalists.
You seem desperate to make a point but struggling to find one to pour your frustration into. Those loyal to the throne contributed to the destruction of an EM astrahaus, after telegraphing that we would do so for weeks / months. Somehow, we are the ones guilty of deploying a âsad spin attemptâ to mislead âloyalistsâ who would name EM allies of the throne and Smokey a bastion of the Empire.
This narrative is drips with hypocrisy to the extent that it borders on comedy. Spare me your tedious didacticisms about honesty and respect.
3 Likes