Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

With all due respect, Commander, this seems very strange to me. The behavior you’re referring to is perfectly natural, and displayed across broad swaths of the animal kingdom in both mammals and aves. In mammals especially, it’s been demonstrated to be a normal behavior in social species, and serves a number of beneficial purposes, from social bonding and hierarchic reinforcement to providing caretakers for the next generation that are not at risk of killing the offspring of others to make way for their own (a behavior noted among predators and primates, especially).

Pilots, I would like to thank you all for the spirited conversation about the Arataka Research Consortium.

As we’ve passed four years since the first expeditions into the Drifter Hives, first as the expeditionary forces and later as the consortium, it’s been quite the adventure. That our work continues to excite this much comment is heartening.


Well, the work’s important, ma’am. Even if nothing obvious has happened for years and years, it’s not like the Drifters have gone away.

It’s not like we know what the Elements are, or what the Nexus is for. CONCORD’s very sensibly warned people away from the Hive systems, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay for them to go unwatched.

It’s not like they’ve even opened any kind of diplomatic anything with anybody we know of-- even on the level of Zorya Triglav, whose idea of diplomacy seems to more or less stop at, “We are going to shoot you. Prove your worth by failing to die.” (Maybe they’ll get more sophisticated if they decide we’re worth talking with, instead of at.)

It’s not like the situation has really gotten any less dangerous. All it’s been, is quiet. Superficially. If anything, the quiet seems that much more dangerous because it suggests that the Drifters, if they’re not broken, are patient.

And it’s not like anyone else is really doing this stuff.

So. Yeah. Whether people love or hate your work, ma’am. . . .

Are you telling me animals commit perversions? Ridiculous.

Again, Commander, with all due respect, yes. The behavior’s been extensively studied in wild canids, felids, equines, primates, and other mammalian families, as well as same-sex pair bonding in aves. Perhaps you should do some research into the topic before making that kind of declaration.


Quite agreed. The work’s important. And if the discovery of the Abyss and the possibly now three-sided war there proves anything, it’s that we don’t see the whole of the battlefield. It makes it even more important to regularly patrol those areas we can access.

On which note, I should mention that Annisir Kaugan and others have done some verification work on the initial reports, and have confirmed that the Drifters have extended their hive connections to class 1 through class 3 Anoikis systems, with up to seventy connections from a hive system reported at once.

These appear to be different from the stabilized wormholes opened to k-space, and we have not yet verified Drifter forces transiting into low-class wormhole space.


That’s new outgoing connections to C1-3, yes? Just trying to make sure everyone’s on the same page.

The Maker has forged the Nature for the survival of the strongest and fittest, at least that’s what we Caldari believe in. Those animals which are broken and can’t procreate properly are the failure lines and will be eliminated by the Nature itself, their genotype will be lost. It is self regulated. Say, if your hoverbike engine won’t start when you slip into it your keycard, it doesn’t mean it’s norm. It’s broken.

Clarification to make sure we are talking about the same thing: I consider as a perversion any procreation-imitating or similar indecent activity that is not leading to child birth, it doesn’t matter who constitutes the pair. It is a failure in a biological procreation mechanism.

Well, again, the behavior is often beneficial in nature, and helps to ensure the continuation of the species. In mammals, for example, such behaviors are often associated with ‘caregiver’ members of troupes, packs, herds, and pods, which then assist in the rearing of offspring by breeding members. This increases the likelihood that those offspring will survive to breeding age, where having more breeding pairs would mean more offspring competing for food, protection, and care (ex: being taught hunting techniques and stalking skills, in predators, as well as more complex behaviors in primates and cetaceans).

Greater competition for often extremely limited resources not only increases the mortality rate among the young, it places additional stress on the members of the caregiver generations. This can result in increased mortality rates in otherwise fit animals, as more hunts or foraging means more exposure to inherently dangerous conditions.

All of which is to say, Commander, that the behaviors in question contribute to successful procreation within that genealogy. And, again, I recommend additional research into the topic before making authoritative statements.

If a behavior corresponds to successful procreation, then it is not a perversion. What are you making this argument of then? Just for the sake of arguing?

Commander, you’ve claimed that same-sex sexual relations are a perversion. My point is that same-sex sexual relations are a natural part of same-sex pair-bonding and social behaviors in the wild, which contribute to successful breeding by other members of the social group. Social species’ groups are, traditionally, based on close biological relation. As such, reproductive strategies should not be taken as limited to individual breeding pairs, but should include the functions within the larger social group. The group can be seen as a kind of super-organism, with multiple parts developing necessary skills and performing necessary roles to ensure the larger lineage of the group endures.

This includes humanity. Social interactions between humans, at their root, serve to increase the chances of humans within the group successfully reproducing.

Consider a small village of a hundred or so people on Caldari Prime or Achura, hundreds of years before the rediscovery of spaceflight. The residents of the village would all be related to one another, some more closely, some more distantly, but within a handful of generations, they would all have common bonds of blood. They would all need to provide for children. If all of the children die, the village has no future. Different members of the village take on different roles and different responsibilities, but these are all interdependent, with an eye toward ensuring the continued survival of the village.

The behaviors you’re calling ‘perversion’ are no different. They are part of successful and beneficial group survival strategies that animal life has naturally developed.


I agree with that. There are many different sex-determination mechanism in the nature. Some species don’t even have sexes at all. I still don’t understand the reason to argue.

I am not sure where are you going with this. To get fresh blood people between different villages marry. It is solved easily.

Again, if a behavior is not indecent and contributes to the group survival, it’s not a perversion.

Any sexual behavior by definition is indecent. Thus if it doesn’t help procreation directly, it is a perversion and taboo.

Why is it indecent? This seems ridiculous. It’s like saying breathing is indecent. It’s a fundamental function of life.

Getting rid of biological waste from your body is a fundamental function of life as well. Would you do it in your city in a central square, or in front of luxury docking bays in your station? THAT’s ridiculous.

There are rules of proper civil behavior. We protect ourselves from what some might consider disgusting, revolting, unpleasant. We represent ourselves as Humans, honorable, proper, decent, we cover our skin with cloth to not be like animals, we do bodily functions behind closed doors and clean after ourselves.

I heard about certain minmatar practices and not sure if you get the idea I was trying to deliver, since I am pretty much certain I saw a lot of minmatars walking freely showing their skin. Well, in the State it’s not acceptable, because we position ourselves as a civilized society, and things like that are indecent to us.

Diana, you are a sad…pitiful…miserable…arrogant…hateful little clown.

But worst of all.

You are a hypocrite. And I know this for a fact.

I hope one day you feel one tenth of the pain that you manage to inflict on others.


Of course I wouldn’t do that in public. That would be disgusting and unhygenic.

It wouldn’t, however, be ‘indecent’. If it was done in a way intended to affront or offend, that would be, but otherwise, it really only rises to the level of ‘inappropriate’.

Well, as a civilized culture, we’re not so weak and timid that we need to be afraid of our skins. Likewise, we aren’t childish enough to assume that bared skin has to be some kind of sexual declaration or invitation. I don’t believe the Caldari are so immature and ashamed of themselves that they feel some need to declare themselves ‘not like animals’, either. I think the Caldari have long-standing cultural reasons for their choices of attire, just as we do.

But once again, Commander, you have painted all Minmatar in a negative light, and now imply that we are not civilized. I find myself having to ask for a second time that you cease your slanderous insinuations against my people.

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If nothing else, the megas know that good PR is integral to business. Your view of ‘the State’ is really just you pushing your Hethian agenda onto others then holding up your hands in innocence and saying “Not my fault! It’s the State!”

I would suggest booking yourself in with your mega’s PR department before you get a visit from their HR team.

Stay classy, Chakaid.

Thank you for another portion of Kuvake’s propaganda. Tell him I am looking forward meeting him in person so much!

Well, meeting you might be fun as well, but not as satisfactory as one who puts so much hateful and lying words into your mouth.

See ya in space!

Did I though?
These things are quite obvious to be indecent for civilized society. What your people do we find inappropriate.

So far I haven’t said anything slanderous directly and I don’t think I want to take any of my words back. I am not going to apologize to a tribal for what you think I implied but haven’t said. But if you feel offended you are free to challenge me, if you wish.

The conversation wasn’t looking amical from either side, you started making an issue out of nothing, and I believe you deserved it. I’d recommend stopping it here and now.