Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

I can inquire about purchasing them and have them transferred to Para’nashu if you’d like? Just pass along their names and that of their current Holder. I’d be willing to pay something of a premium for them even.

I’ll not object.

Buying the family of your enemies to keep as hostages is some perverted Khanid ■■■■. I’m disappointed, Lady Newelle.

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You wound me, Lady Kor-Anashtih, that you would think I would treat those in my charge as hostages to be used against enemies of our Holy Empire and likening the level my stewardship to that of… perhaps less righteous Holders.

The Lord Consort expressed a touch of concern to which I have the power to relieve and so the gesture was made. Ms Rhiannon certainly finds me objectionable, but perhaps she finds the Lord Consort less so, or even me less so than whatever current circumstance her relatives may find themselves in.

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If I mistook your intentions than perhaps you should have made them more clear. If a close ally could make such a mistake, surely an enemy would as well. You are a champion of House Sarum, and it’s easy to view your every public word and action as that of a conqueror.

I stand by my condemnation of the act of using slaves as hostages. If that was not your intent, I apologize.

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This is why I am not a diplomat, my friend, I do not have the tongue for it. I will stand with you on your condemnation of such acts as you have named.

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Having reflected on this exchange more I thought it prudent to perhaps expand upon my intentions, and to clarify for you foreigners why Lady Kor-Anashtih’s accusation cut so deeply.

Holding the family of Ms Rhiannon as hostages implies that I would want something from Ms Rhiannon in exchange for something regarding said family. To be perfectly clear - there is nothing in New Eden that Elsebeth Rhiannon could possibly give to me that would alter the execution of my Divine duty to bring any slave line under my charge to the Faith. To suggest otherwise is to question my devotion. A serious insult from most, and a truly hurtful notion for a friend to entertain.

If these people were to come into my possession they would be integrated into the rest of my herd where they would work hard and study harder. One day, when this line had absolved itself of sin and embraced The Word, they would be freed and welcomed as fellow Amarr. I would then pray they write to Ms Rhiannon about the Truth of His Word and urge her to join them, to begin her journey down the Path.

It is indeed improbable this shall come to pass, but God has surprised us all on occasion.

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Yes, I’m sure that you mean oh so well given the timing of your offer after Elsebeth just highlighted slavery as a core issue preventing peace in a thread you posted in not twelve hours ago. Do at least try to be clever in your attempts to rile in the future…?

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While I appreciate the sentiment, Newelle, no, this is not a weapon I will knowingly give to anyone in PIE Inc.

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Emphasis mine.

Your herd? As in a group of dumb animals? Your words betray your true feelings.

Yeah, ok sure you care about the welfare of your slaves whom you can’t even speak of as fellow human beings endowed with certain human rights such as, oh I dunno, not being held in slavery and treated like farm animals at your whim.

Afraid that I don’t see much of a chance for a peaceful resolution to this issue of Amarrian “reclaiming”.

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And once again, the disconnect between those familiar with bottom-up government systems like the Federation, where ‘citizens’ have ‘rights’ and top-down hierarchies like the Empire, where ‘subjects’ have ‘privileges’. It’s kind of a fundamental disconnect, and anyone who approaches the problem without keeping in mind that the other side has a completely alien frame of reference… they’re not gonna get far.

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Natural laws and rights exist without the prerequisite of a governmental system - in fact, they are natural because they cannot be created. They’re found as the result of natural conflict resolution which the Empire has already experienced through the rebellion. That in mind, the Amarr can’t at once say that they have an alien frame of reference and simultaneously have experienced the conflict that arises as a result of the indifference to those natural rights. They (natural rights) are universal and equitable, they are fought for and died for, and they will continue to be until the end of time because there is legal and moral deficit in the inequitable.

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What you’ve just said, Mr. Nomistrav, is pretty much the core doctrine of the Federal state religion, and why people often talk about the Gallente and the Amarr in similar terms: as people who want to conquer the universe in the name of their respective gods-- literal or metaphorical.

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Yep. That’s the core conceit behind the idea that government rises from the common need for a means to resolve and prevent conflicts, while marshaling resources and coordinating the efforts toward the common good. Top-down hierarchies, though, insist that all of the apparatus of governance isn’t there to serve the needs of the people, but rather, the authority of the ruler—or in the case of the Empire, of God. And because it serves the needs of the top, the government doesn’t acknowledge the idea of ‘natural rights’… especially in the case of the Amarr Empire, where the ‘natural’ state is accorded to be in contravention and rejection of the divine will… to be evil, in other words, and something to be directly opposed.

They can, and do, have experience with the claims of human rights and natural rights… and consider not stamping the concept out completely to be a failure. They’d probably say the conflict doesn’t arise as a result of indifference to natural rights, but as a result of the rejection of God’s Will and immoral adherence to the false and heretical doctrine of ‘human rights’.

I’d imagine that doctrine would change very quickly if ever they were enslaved en masse.

Dunno. It’d depend on the doctrine their enslavers try indoctrinating them with, I suppose. After all, Mitara’s Ni-Kunni. They were slaves, too.

We are all slaves of God. The problems Amarr has faced in the last centuries aren’t because we have slaves, but rather because many of my fellow Holders have gotten above themselves and forgotten that they are also slaves.

One of our oldest scriptural passages might be useful for understanding Amarr:

“The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited.
Be Careful. Pure Thought is the Instigator of Sin.
Be Watchful. Free Thought is the Begetter of Disorder.
Be Respectful. Uniform Thought is the Way of Life.
The Mercy of our Emperor is Limitless. His Rule is Benign and Righteous. His Love is Perpetual.”

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Nice twist but it’s not at all comparable.

Not me. I’m a slave to the rhythm, boyo! Ugh! Aw yeah! Get yo’ bad self to the dance floor! Uh!

(Actually, I can’t dance at all.)

It’s maybe inevitable that they would, though. We’re still human, after all. Just because a thing would be wise doesn’t mean it’ll happen.

It might even be safest to bet against it happening.