Off-Topic Thread

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #2645

I thought the Amarr had a thing about the perils of a soul knocking twice on the gate of Paradise.

If you have the soul of a Blood Raider heretic, does that not mean House Sarum had a Blood Raider heretic fly for them in the succession trials, much like Khanid did?

(Kalaratiri) #2646

Maybe that’s why they lost. I’m sure God would intervene against that kind of victory.

(Nauplius) #2647

Your rationalist, skeptical, atheistic view of the Amarr Faith is noted.

(Constantin Baracca) #2648

Well, if you wish, you could always present yourself in person to the Theology Council to lodge a complaint! I’m sure they will make sure it is brought up at my annual examination.

(Anabella Rella) #2649

By murdering slaves who attempt to free themselves? By supporting the infrastructure that subjugates and enslaves trillions simply because they were born Minmatar? Yeah, good luck with that, Vea.

(Alizabeth Vea) #2650

I never really ‘knocked’ the first time. I was never a part of the Amarr faith, as the Sani Sabik is not the faith. A heresy, to be sure, but not the faith. Setting aside the abhorrent practices–which are many and not to be diminished–it would be similar to a Wayist converting to the Amarr faith.

“One can repent and pray for forgiveness.
But true meekness is one that has penetrated and laid its roots in the very heart of a man.” -Amarr Scriptures

“Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation.” -Empress Jamyl I

Since converting during the Fountain campaign, I have done my best to live my life according to God’s Will and the Scriptures. I think that’s all I can do.

With regards to Ms. Rella, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree.

(Teinyhr) #2651

It makes perfect sense to cleanse your soul from the sin of murder by murdering more people. It’s the thought that counts.

(Alizabeth Vea) #2652

I have never murdered anyone. Unless your definition of murder extends to the slaves that killed when they were rebelling? I have heard some people proclaim that all killing is murder.

(Teinyhr) #2653

Where I come from, murder is killing with forethought and intent and often but not always for personal gain. Anyway, it’s all semantics. What I meant is that you’re apparently cleansing your soul, tainted with the blood of millions upon millions(?) by… Killing more people. I’m sure this makes sense somehow.

I’m just sourcing this from what you’ve said - that you’re doing your penance by killing Blooders. And before that quelling rebellions. And before that in I don’t know how or where.

(Aria Jenneth) #2654

Teinyhr? You having said all that, I’d be really interested in your thoughts on your own nation’s Valklear program.

(Teinyhr) #2655

Sounds like you want a specific response, in which case, be more specific in what do you want me to address.

(Aria Jenneth) #2656

Not looking for a very specific response necessarily; the program just looks a lot to me like what you’ve been discussing: expurgating sins (albeit more varied than necessarily just murder, in the Valklears’ case) by killing for a cause one’s society approves of.

It seems that there are a few people like Ali around (or me, if you like), and that the idea that killing enough of the right people can compensate for killing the wrong ones might be a little widespread-- at least, in the Republic.

There are maybe some big differences of course, but doesn’t it kind of feel like the principle’s the same?

Or, not so much, do you think?

(Kalaratiri) #2657

I don’t personally consider the Valklears to be earning (or seeking) some kind of forgiveness, either spiritual or human.

Instead they’re making the inevitable ending of their lives useful. They’re not forgiven for their crimes, they’re not atoned. They’re just not a complete waste of their own lives.

(Teinyhr) #2658

Once again I am forced to agree with the above. Most Valklears are expected to die in high risk missions. Those few who survive can be said to have earned their freedom, but that is all they earn - freedom. Their crimes are not washed away, they cannot be undone, even if someone deletes a few lines in a database somewhere.

Even if it is (and I’m not so sure it is), that is a stupid principle. We’re all “wrong people” for someone.

(Constantin Baracca) #2659

We’re nearly all flying around armed, though, so obviously we all have some “right people” we are expecting.

More to the point of the current topic of conversation, I think Alizabeth and Aria in this regard are willing to accept penance in response to those crimes, irrespective of whether they can be mentally held fit to blame. In this case, the suicidal nature of their work is somewhat hampered by the marked difficulty encountered in killing them. So the point made about the Valklear may certainly stand in this context.

(Samira Kernher) #2660

And what about the ones who have not been required to render service and suffering for the sins they themselves committed? Sin always remains, true enough, but our Empire has a habit of waffling on exactly whose sins are considered due punishment.

(Arrendis) #2661

Are they? Or do they just tell us most of them die in high risk missions?

And a new identity, where none of their past crimes can touch them.

(Alizabeth Vea) #2662

Those crimes are still there, though. Even if I changed my name (somehow) and went to go live on a deserted asteroid somewhere, my sins would still follow me.

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #2663

Wow, who knew it was as easy as that.

Omir Sarikusa or Nauplius just have to make a song and dance about how it was their other clone who committed all those heresies, but they’re changed now and totally embrace orthodoxy so all should be forgiven about everything in past.

Here I was worried the Amarr practiced things like the inheritence of sin, but hey, just get a new clone and everything is forgiven!

(Hear that Farokh?)

(Melisma Ramijozana) #2664

Grief above and below…

We are talking about the use of someone’s name. Alizabeth appears to suffer reminders of her past often enough on her own. It’s not for any of us to proclaim that she is or is not worthy of redemption. It is, however, possible for us to make someone’s path a bit more sanguine by offering small mercies. It costs us nothing to refer to her as Ali rather than Vea.

On an earlier note (I’ve been planetside, so I’ve missed quite a bit), she is at least partly correct regarding the notion of some Matari clans stripping exiles of their names, because my clan does exactly that, if the person’s surname is Ramijozana. Granted, my surname’s pretty much the same as my clan name, so there’s probably more of a connection with that.