Off-Topic Thread

(Diana Kim) #2706

Wanna come and try?

(Makoto Priano) #2707

Come and try? I’m not sure you understand legal systems.

You’d need to initiate the suit in a court with jurisdiction, with a suitable body of evidence such that the court would take up the case. The messy thing, of course, is that we’re both independent capsuleers, so I’m not sure if we’d fall under CONCORD or CBT jurisdiction. Of course, there are also Ishukone courts, but I suspect I know your response there.

And, of course, the hilarious array of potential defenses is such that I’m fairly sure you’d be laughed out of the court.

After all, the Dominix thing? Really?

(Julianni Avala) #2708

Am I the only one that is sincerely growing tired of this back and forth?

(Charles Cambridge Schmidt) #2709

No, lol. @Makoto_Priano for F-ing real dude, literally you’re only responding to DK to stroke your own ego at the expensive of everybody else. You run ARC. Ain’t that enough? haha

(Makoto Priano) #2710

Mr. Schmidt, stroke my own ego? How?

But in all seriousness, I agree with both of you that it’s tiresome. I only indulge periodically, after having gotten over my wrestling-pigs-in-the-mud period.

Besides. This is the off-topic thread. Not sure there’s much harm done here.

(Julianni Avala) #2711

There is harm to my sanity.

All jokes aside, perhaps you’re right. But it doesn’t make the experience of reading the IGS any more pleasant.

(Makoto Priano) #2712

Fairly well agreed. I’d happily let it wither and die.

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #2713

The thing about being a capsuleer is that we all operate without laws – we are quite literally all outlaws in the eyes of CONCORD.

The price paid for extralegal status is we have no legal protections. An example would be private property rights, these are usually protected under law in most nations but not with us. Someone destroys a capsuleer’s property and there is no redress, no criminal charges, and no ability to claim suit.

Talk of bringing charges against a capsuleer is just a laughable prospect. The only redress you get is at the end of a gun. Even CONCORD recognizes that with its flag system.

(Arrendis) #2714

We quite literally aren’t. ‘Outlaws’ are criminals. Some of us are, sure. Watch and see who can and can’t go into highsec without CONCORD intervention. The rest of us live within the laws that govern our kind, that CONCORD enforces. We even pay our bills… to CONCORD, no less.

So, no, we’re not outlaws. We do not operate ‘without laws’. We’re just under a different jurisdiction than baseliners.

(Teinyhr) #2715

When I say that capsuleers have some weird ideas of proper conduct, I mean that: No matter what kind of messed up crap you do, there will be people to defend you. Hell I remember Nauplius being invited to high-society banquets when he was still actively sacrificing people for his Red God. Same for many other capsuleers that work with / declare loyalty for entities like the Nation, EoM, Blooders or such.

I remember then when the Drifters were the newest kids on the block, I said “maybe we should refrain from shooting them if they present no actual threat and focus on study when opportunity presents itself”, such as the mysterious damaged and passive Drifter vessel concentrations before the discovery of the Triglavian vessel, and had people shitting on me left and right. And actually when I suggested the same about Triglavians and even petitioned CONCORD to not release the filaments, people just kept calling me crazy for being a little cautious about pissing off a group that evidently was advanced enough to harness artificial singularities.

So my take on this is, that the more extreme borderline psychotic crap you pull, the easier you seem to be forgiven. I mean if this “Vea” was a worse butcher than Nauplius (Ali did say Vea was more competent than Nauplius) I’m surprised people still even talk to her, extenuating circumstances or no. I mean, I should be surprised, but I’ve seen this time and again.

Guess I should just embrace the madness myself.

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #2716

Security status is just a system, it does not actually involve the filing of criminal charges or any sort of prosecution under any system of law.

Again, extralegal status means for all intents and purposes every capsuleer is fair game. Death and destruction of property by any capsuleer upon another brings no charges of criminality under law because legal protections had been waived in the first place.

This also affects CONCORD behaviour towards capsuleers. If they want to, they’re quite free to just drag whatever capsuleers they want to Yulai to get shot by other capsuleers without prosecution, trial, or due process because no capsuleer has any legal protections beyond DED diktat.

(Diana Kim) #2717

I am a citizen still, by the way.

Ishukone… you surely should be joking? No, I won’t say anything about that, I’ll just make a proposition similar by degree of your own: State Protectorate court martial.

Umm, you even forgot your own slanders? That was just example of someone else slandering me, and that would be just terrifically easy court cases. Even if they would manage to fabricate any evidences of that, I’ll just pull our my capsuleer training certificate with a poker face.

It could be easy to show I flied osprey or basilisk, however, but that only in general, I would be very curious to see if you can show I did that in Haatomo, but even that, how would you fight official logs?

Besides all that, there’s just one word for which lawyers will “eat you alive”. Good luck trying to prove that a pilot in a good standing and in perfect mental health is a “madwoman”.

So, yea, I want very much to see how you will wriggle in the courtroom, that surely will be a sight to laugh at!

(Valerie Valate) #2718

Cucumbers are the lewdest fruit.

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #2719

Listen, you are reading the off-topic thread. I am fairly certain sane people don’t.

(Teinyhr) #2720

You need to be a bit insane to even try becoming a capsuleer in the first place.

(Diana Kim) #2721

Or you could have no other option… :raised_hand:

(Teinyhr) #2722

You mean as in, either try your luck at genetic lottery or die? In retrospect, I’d rather die than go through the training again.

(Arrendis) #2723

Emphasis added.

Just because CONCORD’s laws do not provide a trial for the accused doesn’t make it any less a system of laws. Charges? CONCORD tracks everything you do. Your every action and word is monitored. They don’t need charges to attempt to convict you of, they simply note what you have done and dole out your punishment. ‘Law’ doesn’t require ‘jurisprudence’. It doesn’t require a subsystem wherein the accused gets to defend themselves. ‘Due process’ is defined by the system. It is ‘the process that is due’. And in the system of laws all capsuleers live under, that process is ‘CONCORD has judged you guilty, now you pay the price’.

Except it does. It brings immediate violent response… unless you’ve paid CONCORD off in advance, or you’re in an area CONCORD has designated ‘low security’.

Don’t mistake ‘legal protections’ for ‘laws’. We live under a system of laws. Break them, and there is no appeal, there is no defense, there is only your ship, exploding under CONCORD’s guns. It’s an extremely draconian system of laws, but it’s still a system of laws.

(Krzysztof Niwinski) #2724

^ No country for old men

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #2725

This is why every capsuleer is an outlaw, the very word derived from the homo sacer tradition of “without law”. From the outset CONCORD treats every capsuleer as one. CONCORD is the law and it retains for itself the power to do whatever it wants to capsuleers because a capsuleer has zero legal protections.

For example, as events in Kahah showed, you can have any sec status you want, but if CONCORD wants capsuleers shot it can as with Samira Kernher or entire Minmatar fleets declare them free to be shot with no response or recourse to appeal that decision.