On a new kind of F2P players: Theta Characters


I was just musing with the idea of what would allow something like an Omega player, with the skills he has accumulated, to be able to use said skills without being in Omega status.

After much thinking, the only way I could see this being feasible is through the possible destruction of the character of said player for the advantage of not paying and yet being able to use the skills that would be available only to an Omega character.

I introduce thus the idea of Theta characters. Characters that when destroyed, die. No transferring of consciousness, no clones, nada.
You accumulate skills as always, you can fly all the ships available to Omega (save the Drifters maybe). But if you die, you die, all those skill points evaporate with your character.

Obviously they’d be limitations:

  • You can’t dock in NPC stations, ever.
  • You can use Skill Injectors, but you can’t use Skill Extractors.
  • You would have to purchase the character using some form of currency/object in the game, something that linked to some kind of offer/demand mechanism.

And of course, if you happen to be in the only kind of stations where you can dock, Player-owned structures, and that one explodes, the character dies.

What do you say? It would introduce a new kind of gameplay for those who want to play free and are willing to take the risk, some kind of gameplay could be available to them due to their permadeath nature, and that without even taking into account the kind of clones you could create as Theta characters.

The problem is that it’s really easy to not die in EVE as it’s become so safe now…it would be gamed to death in HS.

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I’d guess a refinement of the limitations is needed:

  • Cannot dock in NPC stations.
  • Dies when docked in a destroyed structure.
  • Dies when logged out in space after a set amount of time (1-5 hours)

Even in HS this would be sufficient risk to make sure that some deaths do happen.

It’s a neat idea but would be a farmers dream…

  • most have their own stations as they are so cheap and safe
  • that actually seems mean
  • that works

I’m a “safety first” type on HS/LS and I only die to NPC when doing something stupid/experimental…and most are even safer than I am…

This kind of character would be nice for sitting in an Orca/Rorqual gaining ISK to pay off the character. Or think of all the Alphas that can now finally use barges (with a little higher investment due to the fact that they first need to buy a Theta character), they could put so many more ores on the market!

Obviously these characters would need to avoid getting killed, but I guess nobody would use Theta characters to do dangerous PvP - everyone would see it as a way to use Omega ISK farming without going Omega, apart from the initial barrier of buying the character.

For example imagine the Theta characters with maxed out trading and contract skills, who never even leave the station of Jita? All the Omega skills, none of the downsides! ‘Alpha characters’ who are able to run PI as long as they don’t die! A free extra character with all the research and resource processing skills available, that won’t die because they never leave station!

No, I think the split between Omega and Alpha characters is in a good place. And Theta characters would be a really bad idea.

To be honest, I like that you’re trying to add the permadeath mechanic to this game, people have been interested in it in other games. I just don’t think a pvp game like EVE is the kind of place where permadeath would be a good addition as it would make people even more risk-averse than they already are. And people definitely should not get any bonuses for playing a permadeath character, those characters would be abused in cases where death is nearly impossible by docking up and using their skills from within one or multiple stations indefinitely.

You could add all of these situations to the list of limitations, but even then I wonder what the point of such a character is. What sort of motivation do you have to get such a character?

I know I’d probably never want to fly such a character in EVE, because clones and dying are such a big part of the game. Get lost / stuck in a wormhole? Pod yourself back home. Had fun after a long roam and cannot be bothered to fly back? Fight until they pod you. Interested in buying some skillbooks / injectors / ship skins in high sec? Jump to your clone there, buy the stuff you’re interested in, install a new clone and self-destruct your current clone to get back home.

Dying is part of the game, even if others don’t do it for you. So why would you want such a character in EVE?

Is it because you don’t want to keep paying for Omega while not reverting to Alpha skills? In that case just pay for Omega to get / keep those skills, like the rest of the Omega players. Or play as Alpha, limited but free.

Is it because you want more risk? Try flying with some expensive implants! Is this perhaps the ‘risk of not dying’ that you’re looking for?

Myself I had some time ago slightly different idea - since eve can now be played f2p and on sub-based we are only missing b2p for full scale :wink:

So was thinking of “purchase” that overwrites alpha state with beta state where all restrictions of alphas - but one - apply.

The one skipped would be - omega skills already trained can be used - so you still need omega to progress into omega skills or even progress above alpha sp cap, but you get to keep your skills once sub run out - if you purchased Beta registry of course

Would it be balanced? I’m not sure, probably more balanced than OP’s suggestion imo.

@Manweru_Cemenotar The issue there is that people become Omega for a month, inject into a Rorqual, do your one-time purchase and can mine in their Rorqual for the next 10 years without subscription.

I think neither the wallet of CCP, nor the ores market will thank you for it.

No, want to use those skills cough up the cash or the plex.


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Yeah, that’s called being Omega.

“But if I call it something else then it’s not omega”

Reminds me that paid ride sharing is not taxi service. :roll_eyes:

Never claimed it to be perfectly workable/good idea, just less bad than OPs xD
(his would allow for same without even going omega at any point)

but then scenario You speak off could be remedied by long overdue fixes to rorqual balancing :wink:

but then again - it was random idea sparkled by silly thought, just thrown it in here to contrast it against OPs idea.

Can’t dock into NPC stations, ever.

Quite the limitation, I’d say.

All very good observations, indeed the goal here is not to make people even more risk-adverse, if anything permadeath should make people more open to risk, and thus should have the rewards that warrant said risk.

I’d say not having to pay for an Omega sub is at first pretty nice as such a reward, but it doesn’t have to be just that.

Pretty much, it is the perfect avenue to bring back that whole SP/Clone management aspect that was lost with the years in EVE.
Don’t you find it weird that you can jump into a clone, learn a skill in that clone, and then jump into another clone, and somehow that clone knows everything you learned in that previous clone?

Permadeath allows the game to introduce types of clones, skill management, clone management, and other gameplay aspects that can be quite interesting.

And that perfectly plays into the death and loss/clone and rebirth aspect of EVE.

On the contrary, as long as we make perfectly sure that death is indeed not nearly impossible. Outside of logging out and docking up, what recourse someone has over not being hunted and podded? EVE is called a dangerous game for a reason, that it got safe was the (quite autistic) work of players, and with the limitations above, even more players would want to make it safe, you’d have even more reasons to knock the structures in Perimeter if you know that they housed hundreds of Theta characters.

I can see giving special ships to Theta characters, that would ask for skills that can only be learned on a Theta character. Drifters ships that are too alien to be boarded by a normal Capsuleer? A sudden drop in people being able to fly those ships because too many died in a war?

Actually if there is some kind of characters that be deserving of bonuses, it would be them!

I’m more interested in the design aspect of permadeath in EVE, that and also in further exploring the Destruction side in EVE. Destruction of SP and skills should be a major part of the equation, a part that is currently inexistant, the only loss of SP happens when someone no longer play, and even then the SP isn’t actually lost because he can just come back.

doesn’t matter much if you upgrade to theta while docked up already.

or if thetas were created from scratch, then you are still locking them out of all tutorials (which include docking to a number of NPC stations) and noticeable chunk of EvEs content (number of interactions only possible from within NPC station)

Even from within player-owned stations such a ‘free omega’ character can do a lot of things without running the risk of dying. There are a lot of ways to abuse the free omega skills without ever putting yourself in danger. Just flying around between tethers of different player-owned stations wouldn’t get you killed as long as you pay attention to any bubbles.

PI, industry, market, all of these have skills limited to omega with good reason. If people could do these with an alpha alt (or in your case, theta alt), they would never have to pay again to have access to all the omega skills they need. I don’t think you can solve that problem with more limitations.

Or you can. I know exactly the kind of limitations that should be present on a free-to-play account to avoid EVE being swarmed by free accounts with omega skills. And those are the alpha limitations.

If you want omega skills, please pay for them. That’s what keeps EVE running.

With appropriate skill limitations, an f2p permadeath mode could be enjoyable.
It would make highsec bounties more amusing and give even more incentive to fly unreasonably expensive pvp ships. You probably won’t survive, so you don’t want to lose a 20m sp pilot out of a 4m frigate loss. That’s just embarassing.

I’d make one.

You decided to make it a ‘please pay for EVE Online’ issue instead of actually thinking it through?

What prevent those activities, you deem so dangerous that even being exposed to death in a structure would not be risk enough, to just be barred to Theta characters? The point is do you really think there is no space for permadeath, or to make it possible?

If you want to preach for more people to sub and pay, you can do so in general discussions, where it matters.

Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear.

If you want access to omega skills, pay for EVE online. I feel like this entire suggestion is made as a construction to get around the Alpha limits, so you can get access to Omega skills without paying for it.

But if your focus isn’t to get access to Omega skills, but is to add a permadeath mechanic to EVE as a riskier way of playing for people who are interested in such a thing, I do see an option that cannot be abused by people who want free omega: permadeath without any upsides.

No upsides, except maybe a nice unique character picture background to show you’re playing on permadeath mode, for people who want to play EVE on hardcore mode. And if you want a permadeath Omega character, feel free to pay for a subscription for that character.

That would be the only way I can see permadeath as a useful and non-abusable addition to EVE. As a riskier way of life for people who enjoy that kind of risk.

Why don’t you just make your own thread instead of trying to derail the OP’s bad idea with your bad idea?

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That sounds sooooo boring.

I hope you realize that.

So what if I want to have Omega skills without paying? I do factor that CCP will have to make that access be under some kind of Supply and Demand, this is EVE after all, so if there is some kind of cost associated to it I don’t see why you have to be so uppity about it.

Seriously, get some fun, permadeath would allow for some really cool concepts to be added in, not just the one I am suggesting. You might have at least one or two ideas that aren’t just about restricting people’s fun? No?

Hah, I’m merely telling him if he cuts half his idea it could fit in EVE. Dantelion’s idea is “Free Omega + Permadeath” and I’m saying that if he cuts the free omega part he can have permadeath in the game if he wants.

And you call that my idea?

As I have posted earlier in this thread, I’d never play permadeath mode in EVE. But he can have it if he wants the extra risk.

Well why are you asking for a permadeath mode then? Just so you can have the free omega skills you slapped on top of them without paying for it?