On toxic and exclusionary behaviour

I am not using anything as an excuse. It is literally what EVE is about. It is what CCP portraits EVE as. It is what their trailers portrait it as. It is what the killboards portrait it as. It is what news stories portrait it as. It is stories about corp theft, awoxing, ingame stalking capital pilots for years, ganks in high sec and so on portrait it as.

Naturally. I would not do that to my corp mates or alliance mates that I like, cherish and respect. But people outside that group are simply targets. While I do not usually engage in really toxic speech or actions because I see myself as a reasonable person, I don’t see any issue with the general concept of toxicity being pervasive in EVE.

This is so going to go “off-topic” (whatever the topic here is anyway). CCP can create chaos without taking away Local chat. We have had local chat for 15 years and there has been a ton of chaos in these 15 years. The issue is not Local chat, it is what CCP built around it as well as CCP disregarding the design principles of the past for EVE. These Rorquals should have never been in EVE because they were not originally designed as a super miner. CCP ignored that. Super and Titan production used to be at risk because it was done in POS with limited slots and defensive capabilities. CCP ignored that. I could continue that list without ever having to mention local chat to show why EVE subjective feels “less chaotic”.

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Agree 100% with the OP.

:+1:

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I didn’t say, the game wasn’t about glorious explosions and salty tears. I just said, that the game is also about the complete opposite. Your statement I quoted, made it sound like EVE is only about crushing your opponents. I’m not here to disagree with you. I totally agree that it is a part of eve.

Yeah, I didn’t want to get into a huge discussion, which is why I added the comment in the parenthesis. Honestly, I don’t care about blackout and in my opinion the game has bigger issues.

I just added it to give an example of what seems to be some lack (or at least projected lack) of direction from CCP. I mean, when Hilmar comes out and says “Ladies and gentlemen, you are going to be in for a rough ride. Welcome to Chaos Era!”, yet then does a complete rollback without any real explanation (a devblog would have been nice) some months later. It is kinda hard to argue, that CCP got a crystal clear vision.

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Sorry, can’t agree with you. It could look like you deliberately used “parasite” instead of “pirate” to belittle.
You may claim that you didn’t intend to but that doesn’t change the subjective impact of “parasite”.
Some words are just not worth using when talking about people on internet forums (unless one is a demagogue)

Your behaviour (in the Orca thread) is hardly a good example.

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Yet this is exactly true.

His post makes as much sense as trying to fit a hull tank mega without low slots.

So, to both of you… when he claims to be “a pirate” do you assume he goes around in real life stabbing people and robbing them of their goods?

I mean, I don’t know how much clearer “from a game population perspective” and “in the game” can be that we are referring to in-game issues and not the real person. I suppose perhaps one could make the point “you should never say anything that can be misconstrued or might upset somebody, even if you are 100% clear on the point you are making”.

But that seems a bit overprotective of people who are fighting hard to justify ganking weak targets in high sec, don’t you think? I mean seriously, this is the “HTFU, your tears are sweet nectar to me” crowd we’re talking about here.

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1ThjDho

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Step back a bit. I simply wanted to point out that using “parasite” in when talking about people, or their actions, was not really that helpful.
In the game “pirate” has the meaning of a player who shoots another player’s ship for the contents.
“Parasite”, on the other hand, has a history of being used by demagogues to refer to “outside” populations.

Yes, it is awkward when trying to use an ecology analogy but wouldn’t “predators” have been better?

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hu… no ? A parasite is something that feeds on something else’s work. Not specifically a population. You can eg say that politics are parasites.

Just because some people use it poorly does not mean it can’t be used appropriately.

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I absolutely considered using ‘predators’, and in fact began typing that. But on reflection, looking at the game population from an ecosystem viewpoint (which is a point I make in multiple threads, because it is exactly how a game population needs to be managed) - when using it as an analogy, a predator is typically something whose overall effect can, in fact, strengthen the remaining population. This effect is even possible in EVE although I’ve not seen any evidence of it myself (primarily because natural selection, reproduction and survival of the fittest does not directly apply). Also, predators are generally at considerable risk themselves unless they are the apex predator for their environment.

However, a parasite weakens the host and leeches resources away from it. Parasites are not generally something that is prone to being attacked. Parasites generally operate from a position where they are unlikely to suffer return attack from their prey (unlike many predators).

So the word was chosen because I put specific thought into how, IMO, non-consensual PVP in the ‘safer’ areas of a game affects that games population. It is more likely to harm the population than strengthen it, it is more likely to leech resources from healthy hosts, it is more likely to attack while remaining relatively safe from attack.

These points are backed up specifically by the article on which the thread was based. It was not a casual attack on a person, and it was specifically noted, twice, as referring to in-game issues.

Again, remember we are talking here about people who regularly destroy and disrupt another person’s gaming session and progress for their own personal benefit. And yet they are so thin-skinned that they cannot handle reading a clear, in-game, on-topic reference that happens to have negative connotations?

Just how PC/carefully sensitive of their feelings does one need to be when discussing the topic of ganking with gankers?

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It’s a little disappointing that there can be so much confusion and misunderstanding about what is toxic and what isn’t. There are plenty of arguments made in good faith in these forums, and then there’s a lot of just seriously gross stuff, and I don’t think it’s particularly difficult to figure out which is which.

Now that I’ve been on here for a while, I can say there are certain people whose posts regularly irritate me, there’s a select few I think are totally reasonable most of the time, and the biggest group is somewhere in between. Then there are a few weirdos (I mean this as a term of endearment) who I FEEL like I shouldn’t like but do anyway. In any case, I simply don’t respond to toxic posts. My tears are my own, and no one else’s, thank you very much.

We can yell at each other about, I don’t know, whatever, or we can talk about EvE. Generally, I’d rather do the latter. I think this game is pretty alright.

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Sounds like another stealth “nerf ganking” thread.

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I’m still debating whether to Godwin this thread.

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