Opressive unrealistic Gatecamp mechanics

[Syzygium]

@Gerard_Amatin

What do you think?

I think that it would solve no problem.

The design concept of Upwell Structures is so fundamentally flawed against small groups, that it literally cannot be fixed by bandaid.

If you have “your SOV space” there is no scenario that a small group would be “impossible to get rid of them”. You outnumber them vastly, so even if they’d drop a Large Deathstar POS (which is WAY stronger than an Astrahus, in the EWAR sector even way stronger than a Fortizar), any bigger alliance could easily clean that one up to “clear their sov space” by just forming a proper fleet and wipe them off the field.

For small groups to be able to live somewhat independent you’d need structures that

• autodefend like POS, so to reinforce them you’d need a proper fleet. A structure needs to be able to repel any small to medium roaming gang on their own. Attacking it requires some commitment (being tackled and vulnerable on grid with quite some expensive ships for an extensive time period).
• give a MASSIVE defenders advantage, like in the real world and like POSes do. AKA a structure in the back means you can repel a fleet twice your own size. Atm a well armed POS offers that.
• Has so much hitpoints that it is annoying to shoot down if you have not a real good reason to (aka you want the system for yourself or the owners have really pissed you off). Or you bring caps, which can lead to you losing caps if someone else decides to jump in.

Yes, I know what you think now: “But, but… thats annoying for a large alliance trying to clean up structures in THEIR SPACE!!!” - exactly THAT IS THE POINT. Large alliances currently hold waaaaaaaay to much space that they all call “theirs”. Effectively denying content to anyone else. Because they can easily and conveniently jump around fleets, wiping the floor on demand with any smaller group trying to claim even a single border crumb from the cake.
And exactly that has to end. If you don’t like “cleaning up strangers structures”, how about claming less systems? Nobody should even be able to anchor an Upwell without you noticing and preventing it, heck, it’s visible for goddamn 24 hours! Else you simply do not deserve to own that space.

[Arthur_Aihaken]

So (trying to catch-up on this thread)… Are we talking about making structures more powerful and limiting the number per system - or something else?

[Syzygium]

@Arthur_Aihaken

Are we talking about making structures more powerful and limiting the number per system - or something else?

It’s really just smalltak at this point as the orginal topic seem to have run dry.

But yes, Structures being powerful, hard to remove, but very limited in numbers were key features of the old POS system. And the reason why it worked so well for small and large groups alike for more than a decade.

The new Upwell system is explicitly based on the convenience demands of large groups. Totally missing the fact that in a design system made for small groups, the large groups can still thrive and dominate, because they can solve pretty much any problem they encounter with numbers and money. But in a design system made for large groups, small groups simply cannot thrive. Since they usually just lack numbers and money to solve problems. So they either become part or pet of the large groups, further solidifying the existing power structures, reducing conflict, reducing rivalries, reducing drama and in the end reducing fun for everyone. As we can witness for the last decade or more.