They could destroy their structures, but they don’t. With a moderate amount of effort, they could structure bash them off game but they don’t. You can’t evict them completely, but you can destroy hundreds of billions worth of ISK that it would take months, if not years to recover from it.
Hasn’t rampant structure proliferation been an issue in every region outside of high-sec in the last few years? I’ve been reading about some of the tedium in the last few massive null-sec battles with respect to structures…
Structure proliferation is far less than it used to be in the past back before cores were a thing.
I still remember some systems spammed with noncommittal cheap structures that would take ages to kill and barely cost anything to deploy. Because of structure cores and removal of a timer for unfueled structures that’s a thing of the past, luckily.
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And you are surprised? Every attempt to bash citadels in Ahbazon will result in 3000+ pilots battle which will result into TIDI and what could be done in 1hour will take 5. Multiply by the number of citadels they have. And thats just last layer - assuming that they will let you bash first two layers without a fight.
So where do we stand now? Better than it was pre-core but far worse pre-Fozziesov?
I joined EVE in 2017 and wasn’t around during pre-fozziesov, but was that not the time before upwell structures, when players in null had to build their own stations or claim the existing one in those systems?
Surely there are more places to dock up now, but I couldn’t say if it was better or worse. I don’t think the current situation is problematic.
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Yes, you had to fight over existing stations. They were phased out with structures during FozzieSov. I’m not sure it’s better now - even with the addition of cores (sounds worse, to be honest).
One thing that hasn’t changed is no love lost for these 2,000+ pilot TiDi fests.
Tell me you don’t know what you’re talking about w/o telling me
Fine. When did you use Lancer the last time?
Q: Do we need to look at something with low-sec cynos?
If it wasn’t citadels it was poses that they could run to when a large fleet comes around, which are just as annoying to get rid of. Citadels at least have cores as a guaranteed drop.
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Which has lead to large groups ‘farming’ Cores by just destroying Citadels of any smaller group they can find. in HS they even wardec over it, since a core always covers the wardec costs + profit.
It is another mechanic benefiting the already powerful, not very well thought imho. In the early days even small groups could have their POses to compete a bit economically if they choose an uninteresting location to anchor it. Simply because even larger groups didn’t want to waste their time razing them unless given a good reason, aka pissing them off or they needed the moon. The grinding effort and the fact that no loot was guaranteed was the deterrent to just bash them ‘because you can’.
Today smaller groups need to join some big blue train or pay rent/tribute, making the rich even richer, skeletizing the existing systems of power. And the design of Citadels (including the cores…) is not a step upwards compared to POSes, it is incredibly bad design.
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I like the design of citadels.
It’s about time FCCP adds the small variant to replace the last function of the POS as quick low commitment beachhead so they can then finally delete the outdated POS.
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And I like Unicorns. Just because… feelings.
If you want the game to be even more boring, more stagnating and more being multiboxed instead of fresh blood coming in from people dreaming about building something of “their own” instead of joining large power blocks or paying half their income as “rent” for structures that are not even their own, just go on. The design of Citadels is completely horrible from every angle. It is almost as if CCP made a contest for the absolute worst ideas how to make them. 
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Talking about multiboxers, don’t they often use a POS to fleet warp their fleet to safety?
POSes are a fair bit more convenient and quicker than docking each individual pilot up once the combat timer is over.
~_~ What… really, that is so insignificant it doesn’t even matter. Yeah maybe POSes prevent someone from killing 3 massmultibox accounts before they could dock up on an upwell structure every now and then. Which is a total niche case because massmultiboxfleet usually don’t even have aggro timers that would prevent tethering, you only get that for PvP actions, not for grinding PvE or mining. So really fuckin’ what…
Citadel design ruined small group gameplay by effectively denying them all benefits of own structures unless they are willing to pay rent or join one big bluetrain and obey it’s rules, limitations and giving up their independence. Effectively strengthening the already large groups and weakening any upcoming smaller entities. Citadel Design suffocates grassroot growth of the playerbase, because new and independent entities cannot form, grow and challenge existing powers any more, their structures can be prevented or removed easily, conveniently and even with a guaranteed profit by any larger group now. If you cannot see how incredibly hurtful it is for the game, we have absolutely zero to discuss and I am not gonna waste my time to educate a blind man about colours.
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SO the only solution is to add more concord security there. Thats it.
Do you remember the last time they tried that?
It did not go well.
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Last month. And I’ve been lancing haulers pretty consistently before that too. Would you like to see iBeast getting lanced?
Instead of complaining about how things were better in the past, is there a way a new small-sized Upwell structure could be created to function as a base for small independent groups?
There still exists no small sized structure and this definitely is a good opportunity to design a low commitment easy-to-hide cheap Upwell structure that a small group could live out of as replacement for a POS.
Some factors that can be challenging, the structure:
- should not easily be spammed without commitment, or people will spam that (like they did with medium structures before cores and reduced timers for unfueled structures were added)
- should be able to go unnoticed by larger groups, like POS don’t show up on the system-wide overview either
- should be able to live long enough for small groups to live out of, but also not that long that it’s impossible to get rid of a hostile group living in your sov space if you keep full track of where they are
- should not allow easy tether anywhere in the game for cheap
What do you think?