Paladin Warden Kyle Saltz

In the past, you have spoken at length, and with conviction, about the harm inflicted by Pandemic Legion during the invasion of Providence. More recently, you have spoken of CVA’s devotion to Amarr and commitment to the fighting surrounding Arrach Sarum’s declaration of war against non-combatants on Floseswin.

Why, then, have CVA abandoned that struggle in order to assist PanFam at the other end of the cluster in a nullsec warfare?

1 Like

I was very interested in this too. First, disappointed when I was unable to participate in that battle, then confused to see him fighting on the side of my allies. As much as I respect the Paladin Warden as one of the Faithful, he is something other than one of the first people who I’d expect to join the fight on our side (and I am a bit envious of his participation, since I was hoping to be there).



I think there is a lot of confusion and I hope to address it.

The operation yesterday was from a new FC that wanted to train new players to bombing runs or pilots interested in bombing fleets. We used to have an established bomber wing in Provi however, the FC and many of the group that formed the bomber wing were lost to Provi during the invasion. From either becoming refugees to being lost to darkness. We heard this would be a target rich fight and were not disappointed.

We had 8 pilots of which only 6 made it to the conflict. Our goal was to bomb targets of opportunity in the conflict. Of a fighting that had well over 1500 people the concern of 6 pilots and their activities should be beyond your concern. Our damages were laughable in the grand scheme of things.

So we bombed both sides yet our killboards show mainly goons. In my defense one bombing run I attempted to kill the fighters harassing a goon fleet. I missed horribly and my bomb tagged more of them than the fighters.

We bombed Darkness Muninns as well and NCdot Capital ships. I even have the killmark for the NCdot FC brother bob. So please assure yourself that I am no friend to Panfam. An enemy in which I will go to my grave hating and detesting with my very soul. I will never forgive nor forget what they did to my homeland.

We bombed all sides and the problem was that goons died more in subcaps so we happened to have more credit of hitting the Goons than the other factions present. After I ran out of bombs I stayed to target Panfam capitals with my torpedoes or pointing them. Finally after realizing I was the soul survivor of the Provi bomber fleet I returned the 51 jumps home.

I honestly didn’t know the target location until the very last second and was just a Pilot. The FC choose warp ins and targets. We bombed everyone and ensured it was good training for the new brothers. Its something different and hopefully we build from this a stronger bomber wing in Provi. One that will surpass our former abilities.

For our aid to the Militia we stand just as firm with them today as we did weeks ago. We have already provided aid in the form of liquid isk and ships to supply those fighting in the area. Any militia group that fights in the area qualifies for Provi relief funds. While some aid has already been given we have earmarked much more set for the conflict. The goal is that our brave pilots in the militia will never be lacking in ships.

We have provided several cover fleets in the area and will continue to do so. However this piggy backs off a former law in provi which was nick named Arsia’s law. Which states any Amarr loyalists that requests our aid will gain our ships in their defense regardless of Kos standings and past history for the glory of the Amarrian Empire.

Ive not personally been to the warzone the last couple days because I have been engaged in Capital battles against the forces of Recking Crew which are slaves or minions at best to Panfam.

In the coming days we will continue to provide additional aid and step up fleets into the region. We also hope to establish several beach heads into the region while working in conjunction with other Amarrian loyalist groups fighting in and around the region.

As always the forces of the Marches are here in an assisting role and not a dominate one. So to conclude.

A. 6 bombers hitting everyone in a 1500 plus pilot conflict is beyond the importance of someone like you. I truly mean that because I respect your position inside Goons.

B. It was such a minor detail in the total conflict. We did not protect Panfam or target only one group. Such as the Goon fleet that followed for 11 jumps out of Provi our All Amarrian ship fleet that went to kill the UK Poco in Floseswin. So instead of UK fighting us in a all Minmatar Fleet they allowed Goons to save it. I was personally saddened that goons would interfere with such a traditional battle of foes that predate any rivalry. Then the Goon fleet sat on the Poco and saved it.

C. I would not listen to any hype that we specially targeted one group. Its just that one side lost more subcaps than the other and because we had slightly hazed them with our bombs before we were credited with the kill.

D. Not really much of a story here. Heck goons are free to roam and shoot what ever they like. I think people are trying to overstate our usefulness in the battle. However, my personal kill of a NCdot FC might smash any story of us helping Panfam. However, like you said you know of our past dealings and my total hatred of Panfam you should look into your heart or your steel trap of a mind you have and ferret out the logic and reasoning that rumors are just rumors.

As always I stand in defense of Amarr, Provi, and my fellow battle brothers.

Amarr Victor. Ave Providence.

Paladin Warden Kyle Saltz


I haven’t been around for that long, our first interaction was at a lecture which you gave to EVE University several months ago (followed a few days later by you and a few other Cerberus pilots removing our significantly smaller fleet from Providence not long after we left Dital), but both then and now (when I am much more familiar with both PanFam and Rekking Crew than I was then), it seemed a bit odd that you kept implying that PL was pulling the strings behind every group that mounted an organized offensive against Providence. Certainly, overlapping goals brought various groups together, but calling everyone pawns of PL doesn’t give enough credit to other groups acting independently. Certainly my corporation has fairly close ties to RC while also being part of PanFam (thus the most recent encounter between the two of us, in Shintaht a couple of weeks ago). However, plenty of capsuleers simply seek to cause chaos and destruction for its own sake. The blasphemous mockery of immortality which all capsuleers partake in has robbed us of our morals to the point where nearly all of us are robbers, murderers, and backstabbers, and nearly all who claim to be otherwise possess varying degrees of hypocrisy on the matter (the only capsuleers who I would consider to be categorically an exception are the Signal Cartel). Capsuleers fight and kill for the sake of fighting and killing, with or without ties to PL. It doesn’t seem like there’s any need to read any further into it. I wouldn’t argue if you described us all as barbarians at your gates, but it doesn’t seem like there’s any reason to say that one organization, especially one which has significantly declined in recent years (though still quite strong) is pulling the strings like you have implied. That being said, I haven’t been around for particularly long, so you’re free to think that you know the situation better than I do.

I’d also be interested in knowing the tactical considerations behind bombing the Muninns. NCPL’s subcapital fleet was in battleships, more vulnerable to bombs than either the Goonswarm Sacrilege fleet or the Darkness Muninn fleet, so I would assume that you would be more interested in targeting those.

For the record, I am not a robber, murderer, or backstabber. I am an enabler of monsters, but even then, backstabbing is far more PanFam’s portfolio than ours.

And the Recking Crew are, indeed, Pandemic Legion operatives. They have been for over a decade. Their leadership maintains close ties on an organizational level, as well as individual connections running through the membership. I wouldn’t call them ‘minions’, though. It’s more that RC leadership and PL’s more influential members coordinate a lot and jointly look after PL’s interests.

As for target choice… a charitable reading would have been that the battleships weren’t under any particular pressure at the time, and weren’t moving enough to be MWDing. A small bombing run would’ve been largely shrugged off. The Muninns and Sacs, otoh, were both under fairly constant fire, and running their MWDs, making the impact of the bombs considerably more significant.

An alternative reading is that Provi’s target selections were mostly dictated by Legacy’s tactical needs on the field. Progod has long ties to Vince from his old Nulli Secunda days, and the enemy HACs were the targets causing the most trouble for TEST’s Cerberuses.

1 Like

What’s the difference?

There’s no doubt that there are close ties and that there is coordination over mutual interests. However, while PL is still quite strong, I don’t think the balance of power is enough in their favor to call RC their operatives, pets, or anything similar (associates would be a bit more fair). I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if it was accurate a few years ago, but I doubt that it would be controversial to say that the PL of Hedliner is not quite what the PL of Grath and Elise was. I would attribute NCPL’s decline to political factors more than just that other entities managed to match and surpass their supercapital force: their leadership has traditionally been warlords rather than politicians (as is not particularly uncommon), so when their military advantage was negated more recently, they couldn’t stand up to having been outmaneuvered by politicians such as The Mittani, and the most capable politician among the coalition’s highest ranks, Gobbins, wasn’t as important until a bit more recently.

I don’t do any of the robbing or killing. I just keep the people who do from dying while they do it.

Nope. Not controversial at all.

There’s three parts to this, and it’s worth unpacking it a bit. First, you’re right to say that PL’s decline is because of how the long-term dynamics between warlords and politicians played out—exactly the same as they always play out. Warlords aren’t generally concerned with building something that’s bigger than whatever they need for their own goals. When those goals shift or fade, the thing built falls by the wayside as they pursue new goals.

NC’s decline has to do with the long-term prospects of bad politicians. Vince has stuck too many knives in the peoples’ backs after telling them he was their friend. Sort’s made clear that that history of how Vince treats his supposed allies, and nothing else, is why DeadCo has stopped marching to NC’s fife. Vily’s said much the same thing, though at the moment, Vily’s far more annoyed at Sort than Vince. The Lady, at the same time, has a long history of being insulting and condescending to the point of abusiveness toward the renters whose income she’s been tasked to tap into for PanFam.

A few years ago, Gobbins was decidedly a joke in null politics. Over the last 2-3 years, though, he’s adopted a willingness to listen and learn, and has developed into a fairly competent politician in his own right. I just wish you guys would stop copying us so shamelessly. Either develop original ideas, or at least develop better obfuscation when you steal our ideas. The Dronelands Expeditionary Force? SIGs? Newbeans? The Horde Horn? It’s like people desperately wanted to be Goons without having to admit that they wanted to be Goons. S’embarassing. What’s next, Cicada Fleets for moongoo? :smirk:

According to the events board, they’re called “Locust Swarm Fleet” and as far as I’m aware, only one Rorqual has been lost in any of them (mainly because they’re restricted to subcapitals).

If the adversary is has a good idea, there’s no shame in copying it and attempting to improve upon it.

Then again, I personally wouldn’t have renamed Horde Partisans to so directly copy the GEF’s name.


This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.