Message to Paladin Warden Kyle Saltz. Director of Commerce for Curatores Veritatis, Ambassador to the 24th Imperial Crusade, Hand of the Margrave, Director of Corp 54, and servant of the Empire

Dearest Paladin Saltz:

Do you get it now?

The Empire doesn’t need your service, it needs your Leadership!

Stop begging the Empress to kill you. Stop swearing fealty to this Gallente catchrag. Enough has been lost to his stupidity.

I beg yourself and Lord Aralis to Act. The path to Redemption stands before you.

With the Love of the Faithful,
Cardinal Graelyn (Emeritus)

After yesterday, it’s hard for some things to keep being denied. Aralis has remarked on multiple occasions that the coalition which he once led had never been defeated by any outsiders. He is still right: when it was finally defeated truly and thoroughly, it was defeated by CVA more than any other alliance played a role in things. After yesterday’s battle in which CVA took the side of Snuffed Out, one of New Eden’s most infamous pirate alliances, over its own holders, after Snuffed Out had attacked their possessions, it’s difficult to deny this.

While I recognize what a relationship with Snuffed Out can provide considering that CVA considers one of their reasons for the collapse of their coalition to be a lack of experience and knowledge for how to properly use capital and supercapital forces, often a deciding factor in their battlefield defeats, choosing to burn bridges and drive away ancient allies in order to potentially have a relationship with such a famously unreliable partner seems beyond shortsighted to me. Yes, there are former CVA members in Snuffed Out. Yes, one of CVA’s fleet commanders was previously in Snuffed Out. But what sort of reliability can one reasonably expect from their reputation?


When I read the title of this thread I thought for a moment that Vaari had made his return.


About the same as one can expect from RKK or the rest of PanFam.

It seems more relevant to compare the expected reliability of Snuffed Out to the reliability that CVA demonstrated as an ally to APOC and TMOCC.

As opposed to pointing out your own hypocrisy in this very matter? I mean, two months ago, who were you defending in Black Rise again? Oh, that’s right… it was Snuff.

As a resident of Black Rise, I was defending my own Black Rise-based corporation’s assets more than anyone else’s and occasionally helping to defend some other corporations and alliances, often those which were attacked by The Initiative or its member corporations, one example being the United Neopian Federation, long-time friends of mine. Some of those actions helped a rabid dog bite its former master, but at no point did I or PanFam help them while they were attacking the strategic interests of our allies. Can CVA say the same?

Considering the only allies PanFam has are short-term allies of convenience—including, repeatedly over the years, Snuff—the comparison’s not exactly apt, is it? Maybe if PanFam hadn’t been attacking Providence more or less constantly at varying levels of intensity for the last two years, and recently convinced Legacy to turn a blind eye to events there, CVA wouldn’t have been in a position where they felt a need to take such desperate measures.

Let me be clear here: ProviBloc was basically asking to be shattered and turned on one another for the better part of a decade, at least. And ultimately, I don’t much care how it happened, or even that it happened. But for a member of PanFam to get up on their high horse and scold CVA for associating with one of PanFam’s frequent allies, on grounds of morality… that’s rich. That’s just frellin’ hilarious. Where was all this concern for the militia pilots of Providence when it was you guys attacking them in order to secure stations ahead of the Upwell retrofit? Where’s it been in the years of attacks on Provi by PanFam before and after that?

Nullsec, as Vlad reminds us, has long memories. And those of us who have no dog in the Provi mess also have no trouble calling you out for your long-term part in making it.


Just saying. It’s rather interesting when an alliance turns down an offer to join Legacy due to not wanting to work with pirates and then immediately stabs long-time friends in the back to work with Snuffed Out.

And I’m the hypocrite for commenting on that? How do they define “pirate?”

When you’re actively allied with Snuff in Fountain right now?

Yes. Yes you are.

You do realize that they’ve been destroying my alliance’s infrastructure hubs in Geminate, right?

I’m not sure what definitely of “actively allied… right now” you’re using, but most definitions don’t cover that.

Actively fighting on the same side of a conflict.

The fact that they’re also taking advantage of you to screw with you in Geminate is kind of like pointing out that the fire that’s so helpful still hurts when it burns you.

“Yeah, no shite, that’s what it does.” Snuff tries to stick you in the kidneys even while they’re smiling and shaking your hand. It’s what they do.

Sounds to me like they’re actively allied with you based on how you explain it. They’re attacking my side’s home territory and I haven’t ever encountered them in the regions where I’ve been operating recently.

Answer this question: Do you consider Snuffed Out to be a pirate alliance? If so, how does that make CVA look, turning against long-time allies to side with them after rejecting a diplomatic proposal that would keep them friendly with those allies on the grounds that it would involve working with pirates?

Except, you know, for the bit about how Gobbins has openly said Snuff attacking you guys is a ‘yeah, Snuff will be Snuff’ thing, and doesn’t impact cooperation in the southern theater, huh? Gosh, maybe you should get on the same page as your boss about who your allies are, huh?

No more or less than any other entity with pilots who have low security status. Including all of Legacy.

As for CVA… again: I don’t give a fetid fedo fart about CVA. Are CVA being hypocritical? They’re human, so I assume they’re basically utter shite, like everyone else. Does CVA being shite make you any less of a hypocrite?

Not at all.

CVA have actively aligned themselves with a pirate entity against holder families of Providence and the Amarr Militia. Unfortunately, ex-Providence holders Red Alert, formed of Apocalypse Now., Sorry In Advance, Two Maidens One Chalice, and Total Eclipse. see no other option but to declare CVA a criminal pirate entity until their affiliation with Snuffed Out ceases.

Our standings will be adjusted at 11:00, 9th August YC122.

Just out of curiosity, who was it the Empress declared the Paladin Wardens of the Providence Marches, and so directly appointed to wield military authority over Providence?

Was it TMOC? Or was it CVA? Because, you know, that whole thing would seem to give them discretion over who’s considered a ‘pirate entity’ in Providence, and since the 24IC’s mandate doesn’t include Provi, that’d even give CVA primacy over ‘but we’re in teh militia’ in Providence, wouldn’t it?

I mean, again, Provibloc’s troubles just serve to amuse the piss outta me, but part of that really does include just how far all you ‘loyal’ servants of the Empress are going to oppose her specific decree.

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Firstly, I’d suggest that you check your navigation computers pilot, because the recent aggressions have happened in The Bleak Lands, where CVA has no authority whatsoever. Moreover, their allies in Snuffed Out have attacked several properties belonging to the Amarr militia, leading to the destruction of a Raitaru owned by a militia group.

Secondly, CVA were given the authority to enforce Amarrian law, which is a duty which their Margrave has abdicated. Providence and its citizens have been left to fend for themselves against the pirates who have overrun the once-great marches, now lawless and replete with criminals, whilst CVA has played to the pipe of Snuffed out in the unsuccessful defenses of pirate bases in Lamaa and Lantorn.

With duty comes responsibility. The courts’ decision on whether that responsibility has been upheld within Providence is for time to tell, but we will not sit by in the Tash-Murkon Military Circuit and watch as the supposed Paladin Wardens of Providence turn against the Empire and fire upon its militia. That is our duty.

And? I’m still not seeing anything that gives a bunch of capsuleer orgs with no imprimatur from the Throne the authority to declare CVA anything but the lawful Imperial authority in Providence. Much has been made on these boards of the fact that loyal subjects of the Throne are not entitled to make their own decisions about which of the Empress’s decrees they’ll respect and which they’ll ignore, or which parts of the official hierarchy they’ll obey and which they’ll violently oppose.

In fact, doing so has been repeatedly singled out by other directly appointed servants of the Empress as anathema and criminal. Maybe you should petition the Empress for redress of wrongs before usurping CVA’s authority?

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A petition shall be delivered to Her Imperial and Sublime Majesty’s privy council and until such time as Her Holiness proclaims a decision, we will continue to act in defense of the 24th Imperial Crusade and law-abiding citizens of the Bleak Lands Imperial territory.

We will take no lecture from representatives of a pirate alliance on the laws of the Empire. Perhaps you should check the penalties for firing upon holy crusaders.

Paladin Warden Saltz has been a great ambassador for CVA, and has worked extensively to bring the alliance onto the right track. He is a credit to the Empire. Unfortunately his leaders have chosen a heretical path.

Frankly, I don’t give a damn what a representative of a piddling little bunch of puffed-up slavers will or won’t take. The fact remains that you’re attempting to sidestep the regular process channels of a vast, sprawling bureaucracy. And whether you like it or not, attempting to sidestep those processes and take for yourself privileges and authority you don’t actually possess is usually a great way to bring the bureaucracy down on your own heads.