Pi Master's series: Why this p4 factory is bad

Source: https://wiki.bravecollective.com/public/dojo/wiki/planetary_interaction

I wanted to share that this just is not an effective p4 setup. P4 is dominated by scalability and large scale production. If you are producing p0->p3 then you gain next to no profit from converting any of your p3 into p4.

For example: the profit of making sterile conduits versus just selling the p3 to Jita buyers == 196,172 isk.

  • So this factory pictured makes a profit of 392,344/hour.
  • 9.4mil isk a day.
  • Requires 9 other planets to fuel.
  • For much more effort you only make 1m isk more a day in profit per planet.

So it makes sense for all P4 producers to focus on P4 and p3 to focus on p3.

There are special cases where a p4 producer should make p3. Usually when one input is ~7.5% higher price to buy than it is to sell immediately. Then only if you have enough p3 production to feedstock the p4 you’re going after.

And everyone else do p0->p2.

This set up is too small, and too slow. The p4 market can turn in a matter of days…while you’re sitting on stockpiles of p0->p3 production that takes 1000 clicks to turn, and could take a dive with a down turn in a number of markets.


So what benchmarks should be met to consider your P4 factory setup good?

Let’s say you want to produce about 420 units of P4 in about a day. Per planet.

But you need to wait for p3 to finish in order to start production at that scale.

You want to be able to start p4 production not more than 12 hours after you begin p3 production.

By then, you are at full scale production per P4 Mega factory and this will be sustainable and profitable as long as you want to feed it and the market will bear.

The question for Master’s students of Pi is… can you spin up enough p3 factories to be able to produce about 420 p4 in about a day per p4 planet?

Are you THAT flexible to the demands of the market?

Ask yourself another question.

Does the demonstrated P4 factory in the original post meet these criteria?

Not even possible… each factory can only produce 1 unit of P4 per hour, so you get a max of 24 units/day per factory, so long as you can keep the commodity supply rolling. To achieve 420 units per day on a single planet you need atleast 18 factories along with all the other facilities you need, Launch Pad and Storage, even with a max skilled command center I’d say you’d max out at about 6-8 P4 producing facilities.

with a “simple” 10 planet setup you can easily get 30mil worth of P4 per day (or around 1bn/month) and even have some P1-3 products to sell on the side if you feel so inclined.

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I myself run the p4 factory set up that I recommended and how I do it is proprietary.

This is why I say Andersen just is no good at Pi. She actually liked your information which simply overlooks some factors I may elaborate on when I get to work.

I treat my P4 megafactory specifics like a Nuclear bomb secret.

I said 420 and about a day for specific reasons. If I give exact numbers you may reverse engineer what I’m doing and figure out how to build it.

Suffice to say it’s very close to those numbers.

I’d say you’re completely wrong.

I’d say there’s a way to run 2x more than your range you gave.

It’s a question of logistical engineering. If you know your ratios correctly you can do what I’m saying. But unless we collaborate the work is on you to figure it out.

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Well right now I’m running 7 planets and making 200million a day in profit and it takes less than 15 minutes a day to operate.

So…define “simple”?

Not all my profits come from a p4 megafactroy.

Just one of those is running 100million in profit right now.

Sometimes the market favors P3 and you have to be set up to work those too. That factory set up is pretty standard.

Nobody cares about this, just like nobody cared about your exploration “guides.”

Saying everyone else is wrong and that you have some super secret tech that you won’t share but we should just trust that you’re some sort of expert is hilarious.

Yet here you are, back again. Yay.


Sorry. But I can produce about 420 P4 in about 1 day per planet.

If I find a way to show my yields per planet without giving away the trade secret I’ll do it.

And I’ll make you eat your words on used toilet paper little buddy.

Please explain how, i am running 18 planets in alliance controlled space, where raw materials are close to 100% some 107%, with the lowest being noble metal. I can make rougly 110m a day producing P3. How do you make so much isk, are you in null sec or Wh space?

So if I summarize, this topic is:

“This p4 factory is bad because I have a better setup. My setup is secret and I won’t share.”

What is the point of this thread?

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the point is: don’t make p4, just do p3 for keeping my p4 going, cose i’m better than you on doing p4… :blush:

Just from looking at that setup, I could increase efficiency just by recommending you reduce the number of silos you’re using and share the output launchers. Build from the outside in (processors on the rim and storage and launchers inside) and import the p3’s. If you don’t own the poco’s or have zero tax, you won’t benefit from p4.

Also. It takes so long to process p4 that you would most likely have tons of p3 available to send out with finished p4’s to top off your freight runs.

Thanks for asking. The following is why I am indeed the master.

I strictly factory planet finding undervalued inputs or overvalued outputs because none of you producers seem to know what you’re doing.

Like I’ve said elsewhere…and there will be an advanced thread on it.

P0-P2 should NEVER make P3 let alone P4.

The reason is there is a diminishing return that eats up ALL your scalability and planets are a finite resource. 18 per Omega.

So … any producer crossing P2 to P3 chain boundary is producing MUCH less than they could other wise produce.

Add that market distortion to the fact producers are such small scale that they don’t care if they make 3 million per planet. Or 2.7million

It’s all “profit to them”.

But when you are turning over 1.5 billion isk in pi a day on factory planets…those fking inefficiencies REALLY distort the market.

Which is why a certain P2 is currently trading more than 150% over priced. Making its P3 unprofitable by a lot…and all associated industry too.

Again. This is why I emphasize that I know things.

What you’re running into is the fact that it takes more than one omega to reliably sustain a P4 chain. On very select planets you maybe will be self sufficient. Bit most people are not.

If you could turn 17 planets into 1 p3->p4 factory planet…you would be self sufficient per omega. At which point the only problem is scalability. 17 planets cannot support 3, and maybe can barely support 2 p4 HITFs (2p4 an hour). But at this point you are locked into a curse called capital structure. I do not have to worry about capital structure. I can make self-harmonizong power cores one day. And organic mortar applicators tomorrow. While your entire p0->p4 chain is STUCK in a depressed market eating losses.

But that’s ALSO for another course.

Because most planets cannot sustain a p4 chain, most people who do try self-sufficiency are underproducing and over valuing the input chain.

If they focused on just inputs…until enough fractions added up to a whole…that’s how you make an efficient market.

Which is an ideal pipedream.

It will never happen.

So while I haveto work to find where the inefficiencies are…they are there…and when I find them I can spend 2billion isk to buuuuuyyyy up every one else’s hard lost fractions…

And make it all for myself.

See how that works?

Thank you! Yes! Basically.

I can make the 420s unit range of P4 in about a day per planet, as stated.

I just need efficient P3 producers who can make better markets lol…

Hell, I’d settle for better P2 producers right now.

Sometimes I look down the p4 input chain and find that ONE p2 is substantially overvalued and throw all my P2/p3 factory planets at it and make a killing.

I’m actually doing that right now.

My p4 factories are stopped because there’s a really … really glaringly over priced p2 that I can make about 40% profit on.

The problem for me

Is that the scale is smaller…I turn over a few hundred million instead of a few billion.

But at 40%…it comes out to the same isk value in a much more stable market so why not?

Whenever I was asked by newb friends how to make Isk, I had always suggested PI as a very easy low entry, sustainable, AND predictable form of income, but… they just found the entire process confusing, EVEN the low tier bulk P1 pulls! A sad reality. A lot can be done with efficient lower chain providers so you can free up mass extraction for more factory planets.

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Even a well running high sec planet can get up to 2 to 3 million isk a day with little effort.

Nothing to sneeze at for entry level.

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You still haven’t explained how you can make a BILLION a day on PI, are u saying that P2 can make billions a day? I wanna know because I haven’t been able to make that much and I live in null sec.