Player-run InterBus shuttle service for people to use

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
1

I propose this, because no one has in a while.
I still believe it’s a good idea.

Short minded people claim it adds nothing to the game …
… but that’s simply incorrect.

Here, in no particular order but at least somewhat structured:

There are people who love being cab drivers.
There will be people who will love being driven around.

There’s people who would love not being responsible for a while.

There’s people who enjoy the thrill of putting their livelihood into someone elses hand.

There’s people who enjoy being responsible for someone.

People like her …
… CSM 15 | Vote for Komi! …
… would use it too.

There will be those who don’t want to AP, but can’t put the time into moving.

Imagine this being possible for people who are offline: You could pay someone else to move your pod to some other place so you can participate in some activity you wouldn’t be able to make it to … *inhales* … because you didn’t have the time moving on your own.

Scenario: @Black_Pedro and I talk about something that’s going to happen in the game later on, but it’s 20 jumps away. We both can’t play long enough at the moment to move our characters there and APing isn’t an option, because we can’t keep our machines running. We both have ships there, so just moving the pods would be sufficient. When we can get to play, the “event” already started and if we started moving now we’d be too late.

Scenario: You know you’d be participating in something, which is going to happen later on, but it’s too many jumps away. Travelling there takes a long-ass time. Besides it taking the time, the travelling itself is boring and demotivating enough to prevent you from logging in in the first place.

This is based on all of those, including myself, who often are discouraged by the long amount of time it takes getting somewhere. Often enough that’s a substantial part of ones momentarily possible playing session, with the end result being that the player plays something else because it’s really not worth spending your free time moving around.

If there was a taxi service, I could just log in … contract my pod to a cab driver and have it delivered at a station before some specific deadline. Money obviously only gets handed over when the contract is fulfilled. If I am willing to risk my implants should absolutely be my own choice and not anyone elses to make.

Of course there’s a risk to it, but without that risk the whole thing would be completely broken. AP is the way it is for the same reason. It would be completely broken if there wasn’t the risk of getting killed. Fact of the matter is, though, that people do not have to move pods containing implants because clone-jumping is a thing and - based on my own ganking experience - most people don’t ever seem to be plugging in implants anyway.

If there’s a chance I can be there, where I want to be, when I need to be there, then I’ll take that chance any day …
… because the only alternative has been not to play …
… because moving just isn’t worth the - often significant - portion of my playing time.

There will be people doing it just because it’s there.
There will be people who are talking about it being a thing that’s there and is weird.
People talking about weird game features is good, because it piques interest.
Piqued interest is good, because it attracts new players.

Being driven around has been a part of humanity since literally forever. People riding animals in general, horses, elephants. Camels. You get the idea. Eventually things changed towards other people moving people using said animals, then carriages, trains, cars, planes. Soon it’s going to be rocket ships. Rocket ships!

Looking at it from this perspective it really makes NO sense not to have this ability …
… and the fact that the game world actually has an official representative for this kind of activity …
… InterBus …
… just further underlines how ridiculous it is that we can NOT move people around.

It would increase the feeling of realism and livelihood in the game …
… because it is something every single one of us understands as perfectly normal and common in the real world.

It would also be a great profession for new players …
(… yeah I totally and legitimately sneak that one in … : - )
… because all you need for cabbing someone is a ship, no matter which.

You’re welcome.

…

Also it’s piqued, not peaked.
Yes, really. Stop typing.

2

Can the cab drivers keep you hostage indefinitely by staying in space and then logging off?

1 Like
3

Great catch! What an oversight! That shouldn’t be possible! :smiley:

I guess in this case it makes sense for the cab to auto-dock somewhere …
… or travel to the nearest station using AP …
… or, instead, for the client to spawn in his pod, emergency warping into space to where the ship left it.

Maybe someone else can think of others.

Thanks!

4

Then it’s a bad feature. :unamused:

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5

If only this could replace filaments…

6

I understand wanting to not be responsible for a while, but I’m curious who finds it thrilling to put their livelihood into someone else’s hand.

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7

People who parachute strapped onto the belly of the guy actually parachuting.

People who parachute without a parachute …
… fully depending on some other guy with parachute catching them.

This is nuts of course, but it’s real, because it’s doable and not actually as risky as it sounds if you consider the fact that we’ve figured out all the physics required for preventing what seems to be the obvious outcome.

There’s also those less … extravagant … who have to take responsibility for other peoples’ lives and putting themselves in the hands of others is a way of dealing with it.

Also, for EVE specifically, because it’s a game. There must be people out there who play it because they know they can get blown up anytime, anywhere. It adds a thrill to the game, just like the thrill you get when you willingly enter lowsec looking for some action!

Adrenaline is one hell of a drug.

8

That’s… not… really a good example.
The reason intro-to-skydiving works is because both people generally want to live.

Now if the skydiving instructor “logs out” or “want to see what will happen” during the dive… well…
Permanent hamburger anyone?

I could see people taking on this role specifically to become “meat delivery” for the Sleepers. :wink:

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9

Of course the people who would put their pod on the line want to survive …
… but the fun of doing it lies in the thrill of the danger of the opposite.

When you gamble on the real life markets you know you can lose everything …
… but people still, willingly, put their ■■■■ on the line for those potential gains.

Every time someone invests into something he’s doing so in hopes of gains,
knowing he might be losing his investment. There’s not really much difference,
except that in the game you don’t actually lose anything of real life value.

The client decides if he’s willing to take the risk.

The odds of getting shot down aren’t even close to 50% when the cabdrivers flies manually,
which most of them will, because otherwise they won’t be having any customers.

Oh! Your post gives me an idea!
A history of rides makes sense … like as a publicly viewable contract history!
zkill only works for the unsuccessfull ones. :slight_smile:

Thanks!

The client should just log in normally via emergency warp in his pod if the cabdriver fails to deliver, or logs out for some reason. A failsafe.

I think that would work?

10

I’m assuming normal collateral rules apply?

The only thing to figure out (other than for CCP to how to code it) is what happens when a contract fails mid flight.

Even if a pod auto ejects and emergency warps to safety, the taxi driver can still take you out to the middle of nowhere. It may just be simpler to auto-destruct the pod and transfer collateral.

Moving jump clones could also be a possibility.

1 Like
11

Collateral. Hm.
I’m not even sure there should be a collateral!
Think about the use cases!

People with implants they care about will not use a cab …
… unless they enjoy gambling their implants away … (they exist!)
… and most people do not have implants plugged in …
… at least not when they’re travelling.

I base this on 800+ capsules killed over the years!

From my experience the amount of pods with implants even reduced, thanks to the presence of CODE. Because what else. They’ve managed to make miners tank their ships and they’ve increased awareness of the dangers of autopilotting in a capsule, so it’s reasonable to assume that the overall desire for safety increased accordingly.

The shift in culture was definitely noticable.

Anyhow. Collateral.

There is something wrong when we always just look at the money/safety.
When we do that, we’re looking at the wrong type of player.
We’re looking at the carebear. The farmer. The coward.

We’re not looking at the people who want to actually play the game for playing’s sake!
We’re not looking at the people who play for fun and the emotional experience!

But we should!

If we approach ideas from the side of someone who only cares about his safety/money …
… then we can’t approach ideas from the perspective of someone who cares about the experience!

Caring about ones own safety/money isn’t about fun! It’s about fear!
What sense does it make to approach game-play in EVE ONLINE from the perspective of fear?

Little to none!

So I believe we shouldn’t look at a monetary form of collateral.
A better and more fitting form of collateral would be reputation.

Offering a reputation-based service … cab driving …
… means that reputation equals the value of the cabbers’ name/character.

Higher reputation brings trust in the cabber …
… and trust in the cabber brings him customers.

Losing reputation leads to customers thinking twice about picking that cabber.
This does not mean that new players, with no reputation, will not gain any characters.

There will always be those who will be willing to advance trust, not to forget that these people will be perfectly aware of required risk management. New cabbers will most likely transport empty pods, which represent the majority of highsec players anyway.

Thinking about this right now, I think it makes sense to have every driver have a spreadsheet in his Info. As CCP has shown us, those can be added or removed at will. That spreadsheet gets filled with the cabbers’ actions. His trips, successes/failures and - because that’s a good idea - if he used the autopilot.

Thanks to the Activity Tracker, we know that this stuff can easily be tracked by CCP.

When the contract fails midflight it means the cab got ganked or the cabber ejected! When the cab gets ganked, or the driver ejects, then the customer ejects. If the pod don’t (auto-)warp away fast enough (assuming the client isn’t logged in), then he’s probably going to get killed!

That’s intentional!

Sure! Why not!
Sounds like a nice addition!

I reject the idea of simplification for simplifications sake, but this wouldn’t make anything simpler, it would just remove a choice. If the customer logs in and finds himself in Solitude, then he can choose to self-destruct or enjoy the fact that he’s gotten fooled and now can try getting home again.

People will always rather try reaching home.
Failing at doing so equals destruction of the pod anyway.

That’s also the better option for CCP, as it removes the step of destructing the pod.

Did I cover everything?

12

Collateral is kinda necessary for courier contracts, and i count this as an extension of courier contracts. The feature may just be severely under utilised if there isn’t such a safety net. I certainly wouldn’t use couriers without collateral, regardless of reputation.

Same deal with a ‘time to complete’ function. I wouldn’t ever use the service if the taxi driver doesn’t have an incentive to get on with it and can instead drag me to the arsehole of no where whilst I’m logged off with no penalty.

A feature like this could transform how groups rally and organise. Which i don’t mind as long as it’s actual players doing the moving.

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13

You claim you wouldn’t, but you don’t state the reasons why.

If you want to cover 30 jumps while being offline …
… then you too will be using that service in an empty pod at some point.

Please explain why you wouldn’t …
… and make sure you don’t exaggerate with your risk assessment.

The odds of getting ganked are incredibly low.
The odds of someone dropping you off randomly are low due to reputation.

He has. His reputation, thus his income. That’s incentive. If you want to be a cab driver, then you want to make money as a cab driver, which means you have to be a minimally-good cab driver.

I don’t understand why or how you don’t understand the value of reputation?

It feels like you’re way too stuck in thinking about safety and money. There’s so many whiners and carebears, it changes ones thinking about what matters. The idea that such people are a majority is an illusion created by them.

What’s the point of looking at things from the perspecitve of people who do not actually care about playing for playing’s sake? The best thing for a game are players who play for playing’s sake, not for the reward which baits them into playing … no?

14

I’d love this service to pay someone to get one of my jump clones across the universe!

If I lose my Jita clone yet still want to go there sometimes, I could pay someone else to take that long trip with one of my clones, making both me and the hauler happy.

2 Likes
15

Only if there is an incentive for the taxi driver to not get ganked.

Without collateral and a time limit i expect many taxi drivers to troll the feature by taking you to gankers for execution or taking you to the middle of nowhere and deliberately failing the contract so that you have to travel even further than you did before.

I simply wouldn’t use it like i wouldn’t use a courier contract without such guarantees.

In a private taxi contract. What about public ones? What about taxi firms that operate like red frog where a third party outside of red frog does that actual moving?

You don’t control who carries you.

16

Yes, there is. Taking the job and his reputation seriously.
I don’t understand why this has no value for you.

If you treat EVE like a collection of mini-games meant only for masturbating into your wallet, then of course you won’t be interested in this. This is for people who like to play with others. Who like to have a name. Who put the RPG back into the MMORPG. The game did well when everyone knew that in EVE, everyone’s a roleplayer.

Do you remember how great the game was when people still valued the experience and their game instead of treating it like a series of mini-games?

I bet you do!

Of course you do, but it doesn’t translate to the “real” world. Look how few people are ganking and extrapolate that on how many people would set you up for getting ganked. The ones doing that are the gankers and there aren’t that many in the first place.

If there was a market for luring victims into traps it would already exist.

There’s no such thing as a private taxi contract.

Of course you control who carries you.
It’s your choice to pick whoever has a reputation you are willing to trust.

An oversight on my part. Thanks for that. It’s important that the customer picks his cab and not the cab the customer. Some sort of job board would be practical, I guess.

We already have this in form of contracts, but less obvious. Someone with a history of failed contracts is likely not going to be a good business partner.

Again … what is it that you don’t understand about the value of a good reputation?

17

It depends how this jobs board works. But it’d probably be a million times easier to just copy how courier contracts work. Collateral and all…

18

I keep asking and asking and you’re just ignoring the question.

If I understood why you’re ignoring/dismissing the value of reputation …
… maybe I could help you understand why you shouldn’t.

19

I understand that reputation has value. But that doesn’t mean this feature will be utilised on reputation alone.

Ransomes involve reputation but very few are paid.

20

We can’t actually know that?

Why does it make more sense to assume few are being paid …
… compared to most are being paid, or 50/50-ish ?